Streaks on colour negatives shot with a Holga.

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

I have been getting streaks or marks on my Holga negatives which are sometimes yellow or magenta. They look like they are the result of uneven development, or sometimes I think that not all the CD or Blix has been washed off the negatives- though that would leave a residue on the negative which is absent.

I noticed last night that I only get streaks or discolouration on films shot with my holgas. Films shot with my Mamiya 6 come out fine with no marks at all and all the films are processed together, so I do not think that the marks have anything to do with agitation or temperature etc. I agitate properly (30s continuous and 5s every 30s) and maintain the temperature constant at 38C.

Interestingly, I processed a batch of b&w films with Dixactol for the first time over the week end. Those films shot with the Mamiya 6 are perfect, but the films shot with a holga have drag marks on them. Again, these films were processed together, so I don't think the difference is due to my processing technique because if it was I'd get the same marks on all the negatives.

Negatives shot with the holga will be underexposed (f11 at 1/100 approx.) compared to the Mamiya negs which will be properly exposed so I am wondering if I shouldn't manipulate either the colour developer or blix times to compensate.

I have read that increasing the development times of the CD will cause colour shifts and I am not sure whether or not increasing the blix time will do anything.

Does anyone have any suggestions or has had a similar experience. Is there a way to change the C41 process that will produce flawless negatives from my holgas?

bdial · Sep 30, 2015

It's probably due to light-leaks in the Holga, it's part of the experience, so I understand.
Could also be flare in the lens.

Try black tape over the edges of the back and see if things change.
The processing chemistry can't tell a Holga from a Hasselblad (or a Mamiya 6).

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

Thanks - but they're not light leaks, nor is it lens flare. Light leaks would cause the same mark on every frame which is not the case here. Lens flare is easy to spot and the marks aren't lens flare.

The marks are definitely caused by something going on in the chemical process. They look like bromide drag and at first I thought improper agitation was the problem . But then why don't I get marks on negatives exposed with a Mamiya 6 which are developed at the same time (and in the same tank) as the holga films?

I will use a stop bath in between the CD and Blix to see if that resolves the issue. I'd interested to know if anyone else has had these problems when processing holga shots with C41.

darkosaric · Sep 30, 2015

Can you post a picture of the negative (not inverted)?

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

Here are two examples of what I'm talking about.

The first is a shot of Stockholm and you can clearly see a yellow streak running down the right hand side of the frame. In fact if you examine the frame carefully it looks as if there's a stain covering most of the negative. In my view this is chemical - I originally put it down to bromide drag from inadequate agitation despite my best efforts to agitate properly. I do agitatate quite vigurously and twist the drum as I invert and don't get these marks on other films as I've said before.

The second is one shows magenta staining all over the sky.

Looking at the negatives again, I actually realised that the holgas are probably over exposing as the negatives look quite dense. I'm wondering if negative density is causing this uneven development to show up.

The stains seem to result from uneven development - but only the holga shots are affected. My question is therefore, has anybody else experienced a similar problem when processing their holga shots with C41 and what can be done to solve the problem?

The best possible solution I have found so far is to use a stop bath between CD and Blix but I'd be interested to hear other suggestions.

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

The lenses are in good condition for holgas (there's more than one). I don't get these marks when processing b&w films with Rodinal, so I doubt it's the lenses.

cliveh · Sep 30, 2015

If you use a Holga, I would have thought you welcome streaks on your negatives.

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

cliveh said:
If you use a Holga, I would have thought you welcome streaks on your negatives.

I don't.

Prof_Pixel · Sep 30, 2015

wandering holga said:
Thanks - but they're not light leaks, nor is it lens flare. Light leaks would cause the same mark on every frame which is not the case here.

That's not true. Light leaks are very dependent on the ambient light hitting the exterior of your camera and this will vary greatly.

mooseontheloose · Sep 30, 2015

cliveh said:
If you use a Holga, I would have thought you welcome streaks on your negatives.

wandering holga said:
I don't.

Me neither.

What do the streaks look like on your black and white negs? If both you are processing Holga rolls with rolls shot on other cameras, yet only get streaks on the Holga in both colour and B&W, then maybe it is the Holga. It might be very small light leaks that is causing the problem. Light leaks certainly don't show up on every frame, at least not in my case. I have noticed that colour film tends to get light leaks whereas the black and white ones don't (which is why I usually stick to B&W). One way to see if its you and not the camera would be to get them developed professionally, if that's available to you. Sorry I don't process my own colour film but I'm interested to see what you discover is causing the problem.

darkosaric · Sep 30, 2015

Do you get this streaks on all 12 pictures all the time on Holga?

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

mooseontheloose said:
Me neither.

What do the streaks look like on your black and white negs? If both you are processing Holga rolls with rolls shot on other cameras, yet only get streaks on the Holga in both colour and B&W, then maybe it is the Holga. It might be very small light leaks that is causing the problem. Light leaks certainly don't show up on every frame, at least not in my case. I have noticed that colour film tends to get light leaks whereas the black and white ones don't (which is why I usually stick to B&W). One way to see if its you and not the camera would be to get them developed professionally, if that's available to you. Sorry I don't process my own colour film but I'm interested to see what you discover is causing the problem.

I don't get streaks on my b&w negs. I got some marks when I processed negs in Dixactol but that's the only time. good point abit getting them processed professionally, but I'm abit of a DIY fanatic.

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

darkosaric said:
Do you get this streaks on all 12 pictures all the time on Holga?

No. Not on all negs but on enough to make it annoying. And the streaks or stains are never the same. Which is why I don't believe this is a mechanical problem.

wandering holga · Sep 30, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
That's not true. Light leaks are very dependent on the ambient light hitting the exterior of your camera and this will vary greatly.

Maybe but if you look at the two examples I posted, I think you'll agree they're not light leaks.

MattKing · Oct 1, 2015

Is there a red window on a Holga?

ericdan · Oct 1, 2015

Just have one roll developed at a lab and see if that also has the marks. That way you can rule out problems within the camera.

darkosaric · Oct 1, 2015

You don't get this problem with B&W films. What is the difference... could it be that color film which more thicker gets mechanical bent when traveling through the Holga camera - and this is visible only on higher temperature development? It is for sure unusual problem...

winger · Oct 1, 2015

MattKing said:
Is there a red window on a Holga?

There is on both of mine. But that wouldn't track with the direction of the yellow streak in the first image because the film moves horizontally.

Maybe something not quite flare but near-flare? The lenses aren't always perfect and maybe there's something causing some odd diffraction/dispersion?

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 1, 2015

Red window effect likely. B&W not affected or usually not anyway. Color negs yes.

MattKing · Oct 1, 2015

I'm wondering whether it is a combination of the red window and those entertainingly unpredictable behaviors that people ascribe to Holgas.

removed account4 · Oct 1, 2015

have you ever gotten the mystery streaks before, with color film at the same or a different lab ?
if it is the ruby window, what a drag !
that means black tape, and measuring how many turns it takes to get from one number to the next,
whcih seems to me like trying to figure out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop ..

winger · Oct 1, 2015

On one of my Holgas, I put a piece of gaffer tape on an index card over the window. I made it flap style so I could flip it up carefully to advance the film. It keeps the film from getting hit with light while I'm waiting to expose that frame and it also serves as a reminder that I need to minimize the light on it when I do advance. It's a little better than counting clicks to advance (though I do that with the one I converted for 35mm).

I'm not totally convinced the window is the root of the problem, but if other cameras give no issues, then it's more likely to be the camera than the processing. Holgas do allow weird things to happen, even when you do everything else right.

wandering holga · Oct 2, 2015

winger said:
On one of my Holgas, I put a piece of gaffer tape on an index card over the window. I made it flap style so I could flip it up carefully to advance the film. It keeps the film from getting hit with light while I'm waiting to expose that frame and it also serves as a reminder that I need to minimize the light on it when I do advance. It's a little better than counting clicks to advance (though I do that with the one I converted for 35mm).

I'm not totally convinced the window is the root of the problem, but if other cameras give no issues, then it's more likely to be the camera than the processing. Holgas do allow weird things to happen, even when you do everything else right.

The red window is not the problem as this is taped up with black electrical tape.

If you look at the negatives, the streaks are chemical - caused by some kind of uneven development. Looking at the negatives I get from a holga they are much denser than those from other cameras and I'm wondering if the extra density results in uneven development.

The best possible solution I have come across is to use a stop bath between the colour development and Blix and so I will try this first.

bdial · Oct 2, 2015

99.9999% of processing problems are due to technique, processing equipment and chemistry, not the camera. I've never encountered a processing problem that could be attributed to the camera used to expose the film.
I won't say it's impossible, but it is really, really unlikely.

If it is the camera, then the most likely cause is mechanical not chemical.

The best way to eliminate or prove the camera as the cause would be to shoot a color roll and have it processed commercially at a reliable lab. If you want to be really thorough run a roll through each camera and have them both processed at a lab.

If you want to eliminate or prove your technique and chemistry, process two rolls together from the Mamiya, using the same chem mix you used earlier.

wandering holga · Oct 2, 2015

bdial said:
99.9999% of processing problems are due to technique, processing equipment and chemistry, not the camera. I've never encountered a processing problem that could be attributed to the camera used to expose the film.
I won't say it's impossible, but it is really, really unlikely.

If it is the camera, then the most likely cause is mechanical not chemical.

The best way to eliminate or prove the camera as the cause would be to shoot a color roll and have it processed commercially at a reliable lab. If you want to be really thorough run a roll through each camera and have them both processed at a lab.

If you want to eliminate or prove your technique and chemistry, process two rolls together from the Mamiya, using the same chem mix you used earlier.

I don't think it's my technique because I have processed films from the Mamiya and holga in the same tank and the mamiya films are flawless. that is not to say my technique isn't perfect but I think it's broadly OK.

I've studied a lot of negatives carefully and I am confident the problem is chemical and not mechanical. Yellow or magenta streaks, and uneven development, brown stains etc are all symptomatic something needing changing in the chemistry - ie adding an acid stop between the CD and blix stages during processing.

Streaks on colour negatives shot with a Holga.

wandering holga

bdial

wandering holga

darkosaric

wandering holga

Attachments

wandering holga

cliveh

wandering holga

Prof_Pixel

mooseontheloose

darkosaric

wandering holga

wandering holga

wandering holga

MattKing

Moderator

ericdan

darkosaric

winger

Richard S. (rich815)

MattKing

Moderator

removed account4

winger

wandering holga

bdial

wandering holga

Streaks on colour negatives shot with a Holga.

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency