Streaks in the negs c41

[quecontentoestoy]

Hi everyone!

As you can see I am new to APUG, been reading a lot of post but never joined and today I come to you with one question. I´m developing with the Rollei kit and I have been getting the streaks that you can see in the pics. In the thread about the rollei kit (read the whole thread today) One of the users ask about the same issue I have and he did not get a clear answer. He also created a thread here : (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I´m suffering the same problems

I have been following the instruction from the kit and sometimes I have also been adding the wash between bleach and fixer and fixer and stab but the same results.


All done in CPE2 at speed 2:

Prewash 2 min
Developer 38,7º for 3:15 min
Bleach 4:30
Fixer 6:30
Stab 1 min but I have been doing it in the tank rotatin in the machine at room temperature.

Best regards
Miguel

 

[Photo Engineer]

What is the line in #4, and do you use washes?

If the line is a real process defect, it indicates insufficient solutions and agitation.

If it is not, then you need a stop bath after the developer. Use 2% acetic acid.

PE

 

[quecontentoestoy]

What is the line in #4, and do you use washes?

If the line is a real process defect, it indicates insufficient solutions and agitation.

If it is not, then you need a stop bath after the developer. Use 2% acetic acid.

PE

Sometimes I have been doing them but only between bleach and fixer and fixer and stab.
Yep the line in the 4th pic is on the neg too.

Do you think my jobo goes too slow?

 

[Photo Engineer]

That line indicates that the solution only came to that level in the tank and it sat at that level too long. Then, agitation was insufficient. But it also hints that you need a stop due to that agitation problem.

PE

 

[quecontentoestoy]

That line indicates that the solution only came to that level in the tank and it sat at that level too long. Then, agitation was insufficient. But it also hints that you need a stop due to that agitation problem.

PE

And what about the streaks in the other pics? are they because of no pre wetting? or should i try the 30º 8 minutes development?

Forgot to mention that I don´t get those streaks in 135mm film developed in the same tank as the 120mm where I have this problem. I use the Jobo 1510+1530 that fits two 120mm and one 135mm. The 135 comes always good

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, three thoughts.

1. You said you did use a prewet above.

2. They are not streaks except in picture #4 which is a precursor and worst of the other smudges.

3. I'll bet the 35 mm was above or below #4 in the tank. It therefore avoided any static solution as you poured in and out.

PE

 

[quecontentoestoy]

Well, three thoughts.

1. You said you did use a prewet above.

2. They are not streaks except in picture #4 which is a precursor and worst of the other smudges.

3. I'll bet the 35 mm was above or below #4 in the tank. It therefore avoided any static solution as you poured in and out.

PE

I think I did not expressed myself properly, sorry but english is not my mother tongue. The pics one and 3 are from the same roll and were developed in a different batch as the others two, which also belongs to separate rolls developed in different batches. I am more concern with the yellow smudges present in 1,2 and 3, maybe using the word streak was the wrong one. I did always prewashed, normally 1 min, until a few weeks ago I read that there are people recommending not to do it. So I run a few batches ending with the same results.
The 35mm are always on top and I am using a Jobo CPE2. How can I avoid the static solution when pouring in and out?
You think an extra 1min stop bath + rinse before bleaching will help?

Thanks a lot

 

[Photo Engineer]

Prewet is always useful in these situations.

A stop bath is suggested by Kodak if you get streaks.

And Jobo suggests using the right amount of solution, pouring rapidly, and if you can, have the tank running instantly. With the lift, the tank can be running as you pour.

Those are the 3 things that can lead to what you have gotten.

Thanks for the further explanation, but it does not clarify the matter until you try the above. Best wishes.

PE

 

[quecontentoestoy]

Prewet is always useful in these situations.

A stop bath is suggested by Kodak if you get streaks.

And Jobo suggests using the right amount of solution, pouring rapidly, and if you can, have the tank running instantly. With the lift, the tank can be running as you pour.

Those are the 3 things that can lead to what you have gotten.

Thanks for the further explanation, but it does not clarify the matter until you try the above. Best wishes.

PE

Thanks a lot! I will shoot some color this weekend and hopefully next week will be able to develop the rolls. Will try the stopbath and the 30º 8min instead the 37,8º 3:15min to see if i get any improvement. As soon as I have some results will post them here.

 

[Rudeofus]

The Rollei Compard C-41 bleach operates at pH 4.3 and is composed like Flexicolor bleach III, there should be no need for a stop bath. I could imagine, though, that the strong bleach oxidizes color developer directly and thereby creates these streaks. My recommendation is quecontentoestoy try a sulfite clearing bath between color developer and bleach. Ideally it would be some mixture like 10 g/l Sodium Sulfite plus 10 g/l Sodium Metabisulfite. If quecontentoestoy has no access to such raw chems (try Fototechnik Suvatlar if you live in Europe), a stop bath plus a thorough wash may substitute for the clearing bath.

 

[quecontentoestoy]

The Rollei Compard C-41 bleach operates at pH 4.3 and is composed like Flexicolor bleach III, there should be no need for a stop bath. I could imagine, though, that the strong bleach oxidizes color developer directly and thereby creates these streaks. My recommendation is quecontentoestoy try a sulfite clearing bath between color developer and bleach. Ideally it would be some mixture like 10 g/l Sodium Sulfite plus 10 g/l Sodium Metabisulfite. If quecontentoestoy has no access to such raw chems (try Fototechnik Suvatlar if you live in Europe), a stop bath plus a thorough wash may substitute for the clearing bath.

Thanks Rudeofus, I´m in Europe. I will try the stop bath and wash to see if it fix my problems first because i have all i need at home. If not will call Fototechnik Suvatlar or Moersch Fotochemie to see if they can get me the Sodium Sulfite and Metabisulfite.

 

[sfaber17]

It seems people tend to recommend a pre-wash for C41, but if you do that, don't you need to adjust the development time or temp a bit like one does for RA-4 when using a pre-wash?

 

[Photo Engineer]

No.

 

[quecontentoestoy]

No.

Photo Engineer I have one question, checking rolls with the same problem i realized that the streaks are only present in the pictures where the sky is a great part of the picture, in others where no sky is visible, there are no streaks. Do you have any idea why?

 

[Bob Carnie]

#2 is classic example to me at least of what I call Road Ruts.. which manifest as minus density on film which in turn prints dark

I was getting this one summer and basically had to stop process until I figured it out.

For me the solution was distilled water... and initial agitation off the machine first as if you were manually processing in a small steel tank.

Both changes got rid of the problem.. you are seeing the damage mostly in nuetral smooth areas of the scene, in more complex areas of detail
you will see less due to basic camoflague.

 

[quecontentoestoy]

#2 is classic example to me at least of what I call Road Ruts.. which manifest as minus density on film which in turn prints dark

I was getting this one summer and basically had to stop process until I figured it out.

For me the solution was distilled water... and initial agitation off the machine first as if you were manually processing in a small steel tank.

Both changes got rid of the problem.. you are seeing the damage mostly in nuetral smooth areas of the scene, in more complex areas of detail
you will see less due to basic camoflague.

Bob one question you mean the initial agitation in every chemical? like 30 secs or something?

 

[Bob Carnie]

No just the developer..15- 20 seconds of solid proper inversions.. put your hand over top or chemicals will come out..
I would not use a pre wash as others may say is needed

Distilled water may be helpful till you solve this problem .. once again for developer only

 

[quecontentoestoy]

I have been using destilled water always with the stabilizer. Next time will use it in the developer too and will try the 20 seconds hand inversion. Thanks!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hi everyone!

As you can see I am new to APUG, been reading a lot of post but never joined and today I come to you with one question.

Welcome to APUG

 

[Rudeofus]

I had these streaks when my medium format negs went from color developer directly to BLIX, sightly different setup but very similar looking issues. These streaks will show up prominently in blue sky regions, but never in other image matter. Maybe the color layer for controlling blue hues is particularly sensitive to this carryover.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I think that Bob said it all, but you may need a stop after the developer.

That will also help a lot.

PE

 

[pentaxuser]

I may have misunderstood what Bob meant but it sounds as if he used a machine processor( Jobo or similar rotary processor?) after he used inversion.

I wonder what the initial manual inversion did that rotary or machine processing didn't manage?

pentaxuser

 

[Bob Carnie]

Very good question....
Yes manual first... then onto the Jobo
I thought the same thing and that is why it took me so long to discover this particular workaround for road ruts.

I think that most problems with film issues is due to insufficient agitation/ or chemical not getting to the complete surface of the film fast enough.

This causes incomplete development in areas of nuetral where we will see it more.. in complex areas of the image we do not see it as much and the eye accepts minor abberations.

By giving a very solid first agitation , then putting the tank on the jobo I was able to completely get rid of this problem that plagued me for months. example 2 is what I was getting.
from very slight to very severe. The OP's example would be on the severe side of the coin , but I had worse ruts on some of mine.

I also think a distilled water allowed the chemistry to flow more freely on the film... PE Ron could maybe explain why distilled water would help... I once described it as a Laminar Flow problem
where the mineral content of the water in the developer was actually creating a resistance to applying onto the emulsion fast enough... basically a layman's description.

I have always maintained that the reverse rotation on a Jobo is needed and have been shot down for this comment.. but I also advocate a manual agitation for grey backgrounds first
before going on a rotary machine.

I may get shot down for this comment as well.

I may have misunderstood what Bob meant but it sounds as if he used a machine processor( Jobo or similar rotary processor?) after he used inversion.

I wonder what the initial manual inversion did that rotary or machine processing didn't manage?

pentaxuser

 

[quecontentoestoy]

Bob I have one concern about it. While using the jobo tank with the machine less developer is needed than when inverting manually. How manual inverting help to reach all the film's surface faster than the rotary machine while having less chemicals inside the tank.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I have always and I must stress always used 1litre of chemistry in a Jobo for each chemical... maybe more than others..

Bob I have one concern about it. While using the jobo tank with the machine less developer is needed than when inverting manually. How manual inverting help to reach all the film's surface faster than the rotary machine while having less chemicals inside the tank.