Strange "stars" appear on B&W negative

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Hi all,

Since I don't have a proper tank for developing my large format negatives, I have up to now taken my negatives to a professional lab for developing. I have been very pleased with the results, so no complaints there. However, now on one of my negatives from a series, I noticed strange stars appearing (well, actually, they may have been there from the moment I collected the negative from the lab, or they appeared afterwards, I am not sure...).
I have never seen this before, nor do any of the other images that I had developed the same day show similar artifacts. Anyone have a clue as to how these stars come about? I have included a scan below.

Thanks for any information you can give.

ZorkiKat · Jun 16, 2006

Was the film old or improperly stored? They look like fungal growth. But the pattern is strange.

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Hi,

No, the film package was not old. I don't think I have stored it improperly. Actually, the surface of the film appears OK on both sites, so no signs of "fungal" damage. It more appears a kind of weird exposure... strange... I have included a more detailed scan below.

j-fr · Jun 16, 2006

Static electricity? Any source for that in the handling?

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Well, as said, I have not developed the negatives myself, but I did of course load the film myself. I usually wear cotton clothing, which is less prone to static than other plastic type clothing. But it may indeed be static electricity. I don't know what happened in the lab... Any further confirmation of possible causes (fungi or static) are welcome.

joneil · Jun 16, 2006

I had the same thing happen to me in the past - I am 99% sure it is static electricity. The problme was very common on gas hypered and baked technical pan film, as it was so dry, static was a real prolem.

Anyhow, the marks on my film looked very similar to the ones you posted here. Look at how they are in a line. Here's a quesiton for you - are you using plastic reels or stainless teel reels to develip. i shot almost all 4x5 now, but when I was shooting mostly 35mm and 120, I foudn that I almsot never had static problems wiht steel reels, just plastic reels. Once I went all steel reels for devleoping 35mm and 120, my static problems disappeared.

joe

Simon R Galley · Jun 16, 2006

Dear Marco,

That is static......but I have never it so regular or as even, static looks like that or like Christmas trees...

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Thanks to all of you folks, this is really helpfull. Well, I am almost tempted to print the image with the free static "christmas lighting" ;-). I again learned a bit on my way to my analog photography driving license...

Considering all the remarks, I guesse it is most likely a minor error by the pro lab I took the film to to develop... hasn't happened before, so I am not to worried. Considering the regular traces, I at least can not think of a situation where this would happen when loading the film, while Joe's remarks about film reels make more sense, so hence the lab...

John Koehrer · Jun 16, 2006

It's Alien beasties----Run Away, Run Away!

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

;-)... yes, it sure has some X-file content... ;-)

waynecrider · Jun 16, 2006

My question is, what the heck is that a picture of? A vaccumn cleaner in a foam box?

Save this for my upcoming thread, Strange Pictures.

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Hi Wayne,

Well, you're not that far of with your vacuum cleaner... it's a manual water pump! The photo was taken in an 1880's brick fortress. The image was underexposed - I am still learning to cope with the full manual operation of my large format Tachihara. I was never serious about printing this negative, but still posted it for it's "learning" value and because I was very intrigued by the "Aliens" :-0 ...

Markus Albertz · Jun 16, 2006

Now I am getting curious: during what stage might the static electricity have caused the star-shaped patterns? Taking film out of the package, loading the film holders, pulling / reinserting the dark slide before/after exposure, unloading film, developing it, etc.? Amongst a series of negatives that I shot last winter (all processed identically), there is a particular one that shows the same symptoms as illustrated above.

Best,

Markus

DBP · Jun 16, 2006

I had lost track of the fact that this was LF in going through the thread. Being LF makes it more likely that this is an artifact of an earlier part of the process. Given the straight lines, I am leaning toward static discharge during movement of the dark slide, either loading, unloading or shooting. It would be cool to have a way to artificially induce this. Can you provide more details on the ambient conditions, especially humidity?

Marco B · Jun 16, 2006

Hi Markus and DBP,

Yes, it's a large format negative. However, considering Joe's response, I still think it was a lab error, since I didn't develop the negative myself, and there are indeed a kind of tracks...

But of course, there is still a small chance that it was caused during loading or unloading of the cartridges that hold the LF sheet (I use plastic Fidelity Elite film holders).

Unfortunately I can't comment on the exact circumstances causing the effect... However, I think it shouldn't be too difficult to replicate this. Just take some wool piece of cloth! In 2003 I spend a holiday in the extreme dry desserts of the Western US. One day, we spend a night in a motel that had woolen blankets... Lightning all night with each turn in the bed! ;-) I have never, ever seen more static as there, you could almost read a book with it... I still regret not having set up my reflex camera and taking a Bulb time exposure while shaking the blanket...

DBP · Jun 16, 2006

Marco B said:
... Lightning all night with each turn in the bed! ;-)

Marry her, if you haven't already.

Curt · Jun 16, 2006

It's static, but if you get an image of the Virgin Mary you can sell it on eBay for $$$$$$$$$.

DBP · Jun 16, 2006

You could sell it as "ACTUAL PROOF THAT FAIRIES EXIST" with some drivel about how they lined up for the photo. Might go even higher than a Jesus face.

ricksplace · Jun 16, 2006

I had the same thing happen many years ago (25) shooting in -30C weather. It was caused by static. Must have happened in the camera, since I never experienced the same thing with any other film when developing. Pentax spotmatic was the only camera I owned. It performed perfectly regardless of the temperature. There was no pattern like your example, just irregular lightning strikes on the film mainly in the margins.

srs5694 · Jun 16, 2006

DBP said:
You could sell it as "ACTUAL PROOF THAT FAIRIES EXIST" with some drivel about how they lined up for the photo. Might go even higher than a Jesus face.

I recall seeing, about 25 years ago, a story in the Weekly World News or some other checkout tabloid, about a witches' convention somewhere or other, in which the photos had static marks like this. The story pitched it as proof of the witches' supernatural powers, and quoted (out of context) a letter from Kodak in which they said that static discharges causing such marks in (then) modern film were rare. (No doubt the letter went on to say "...but they do sometimes occur in arid conditions," but of course the tabloid failed to quote any such explanation from Kodak.) Even then (I was about 15) I knew enough about photography to dismiss the ridiculous claims of the images being proof of something supernatural and to identify the true cause.

Kino · Jun 16, 2006

Gnarly Static

Here is an example of some really gnarly static from about 1915 on motion picture stock.

Static was a huge problem in the early days of motion pictures. It is very common to see static in films from 1894 to 1920 or so...

Marco B · Jun 18, 2006

Thanks Kino (and all others). If I needed any more proof that this was static, your contribution says it all... Interesting historic background also about the movie picture issues with static, I am always keen on learning such things.

JBrunner · Jun 18, 2006

We have always suffered more static problems in with motion picture film because it is moving, and friction involved is more likely to generate static in the right conditions.

Static on LF is many times generated when the foil bag containing the film is torn open quickly, dark slides pulled or replaced quickly, etc. I couldn't say exactly what caused your static, but it doesn't hurt to slow down these operations a little bit.

Cool example Kino.

Kino · Jun 18, 2006

JBrunner said:
We have always suffered more static problems in with motion picture film because it is moving, and friction involved is more likely to generate static in the right conditions.

Static on LF is many times generated when the foil bag containing the film is torn open quickly, dark slides pulled or replaced quickly, etc. I couldn't say exactly what caused your static, but it doesn't hurt to slow down these operations a little bit.

Cool example Kino.

Yup. Especially when the very earliest gates had a velvet pressure plate! Makes you wonder how they ever got a single foot off WITHOUT static!

Hey, how'd you like to have THIS studio (UK'ers should recognize the name).

Strange "stars" appear on B&W negative

Marco B

ZorkiKat

Marco B

j-fr

Marco B

joneil

Simon R Galley

Marco B

John Koehrer

Marco B

waynecrider

Marco B

Markus Albertz

DBP

Marco B

DBP

Curt

DBP

ricksplace

srs5694

Kino

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Marco B

JBrunner

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