Strange small object showing on negatives - Leica M2

[Twotone]

Hi folks,

I'm going to say as a pre-cursor, I've owned this camera & lens for less than 24 hours and despite this likely ending up to be an embarrassingly simple fix I ask that you go easy on me!

The M2 is very clean and accurate on all speeds, I have paired it with an Voigtlander Ultron 35mm II F2 which is also in excellent condition.
Both have a warranty.

As it stands, there is a small but very annoying piece of debris/artifact visible in the top right of each image that has been there on two test rolls I've shot so far. This is also apparent on the negatives themselves so I've ruled out the scanning element.

Example images HERE

My immediate thought was that it was a piece of hair/dust/debris that was on the lens, or on the B+W branded UV filter that is fitted.

I've checked all with a bright light, including the optics of the lens and cannot see anything besides miniscule dust and have blown it with an air puffer within an inch of its life.

I then thought, it may be something on the in the body (behind or in front of the curtains), I can't see anything, nor can I see any debris etc in the channels of the curtains that would be exposed.

I believe the image is flipped on negatives e.g. top is bottom, bottom is top, so I've paid extra attention to the bottom left of the areas in the body.

I appreciate that this very tiny artifact is easily cropped out but naturally I'd like to get this sorted as it's a very annoying thing to see!

I'm going to go over it all again with an air blower and torch to recheck everything, but does anyone have any other suggestions of things to check or what they think it may be?

I'm planning to put another test roll through it tomorrow without filter, lens hood etc to try and narrow it down. I'm also going to try and shoot it without the lens (expecting some very interesting results) plus anything else anyone recommends.

Any guidance gratefully received before I do the next test roll tomorrow!

Many thanks,
TT

 

[cerber0s]

Hi folks,

I'm going to say as a pre-cursor, I've owned this camera & lens for less than 24 hours and despite this likely ending up to be an embarrassingly simple fix I ask that you go easy on me!

The M2 is very clean and accurate on all speeds, I have paired it with an Voigtlander Ultron 35mm II F2 which is also in excellent condition.
Both have a warranty.

As it stands, there is a small but very annoying piece of debris/artifact visible in the top right of each image that has been there on two test rolls I've shot so far. This is also apparent on the negatives themselves so I've ruled out the scanning element.

Example images HERE

My immediate thought was that it was a piece of hair/dust/debris that was on the lens, or on the B+W branded UV filter that is fitted.

I've checked all with a bright light, including the optics of the lens and cannot see anything besides miniscule dust and have blown it with an air puffer within an inch of its life.

I then thought, it may be something on the in the body (behind or in front of the curtains), I can't see anything, nor can I see any debris etc in the channels of the curtains that would be exposed.

I believe the image is flipped on negatives e.g. top is bottom, bottom is top, so I've paid extra attention to the bottom left of the areas in the body.

I appreciate that this very tiny artifact is easily cropped out but naturally I'd like to get this sorted as it's a very annoying thing to see!

I'm going to go over it all again with an air blower and torch to recheck everything, but does anyone have any other suggestions of things to check or what they think it may be?

I'm planning to put another test roll through it tomorrow without filter, lens hood etc to try and narrow it down. I'm also going to try and shoot it without the lens (expecting some very interesting results) plus anything else anyone recommends.

Any guidance gratefully received before I do the next test roll tomorrow!

Many thanks,
TT

Whatever it is it looks to be in focus, so probably something very close to the film plane. If you hold the camera like 99% of all people when portrait oriented, that debris should be on the left side of the shutter (not top/bottom).

Good luck!

 

[MattKing]

It appears to be a piece of debris blocking light to the film. It should show as a clear spot on your negative.
It appears sharp, so it is right at or very near the film plane.

 

[btaylor]

Have you opened the back, set the shutter on B and checked the film gate? I suspect you’ll find the debris causing the problem.

 

[Kino]

It's what we call "a hair in the gate" on motion picture cameras. The fibers are probably on the back side of the film gate, overhanging the film plane.

Put the camera on "B", fire the shutter and look at the BOTTOM of the gate with a bright light, as all the shots show the top of the frame with the hairs.

You can also load dummy film, remove the lens and do the same from the front of the camera. Sometimes this is easier, as the film base will put the debris in sharp relief.

 

[mshchem]

It's what we call "a hair in the gate" on motion picture cameras. The fibers are probably on the back side of the film gate, overhanging the film plane.

Put the camera on "B", fire the shutter and look at the BOTTOM of the gate with a bright light, as all the shots show the top of the frame with the hairs.

You can also load dummy film, remove the lens and do the same from the front of the camera. Sometimes this is easier, as the film base will put the debris in sharp relief.

+1, it's a couple teeny whiskers, very tiny no big deal. Open the back, open the shutter and blow it out, brighter the lights the more likely you will see these little buggers. Don't poke the shutter curtain.

 

[Twotone]

Thanks everyone!

I had already done the bulb technique mentioned but will do as you all suggest so I can track down these naughty bits of debris!

Glad to hear my thought process wasn't off!

Will report back

Many thanks

 

[Axelwik]

Be careful blowing in the vicinity of the cloth shutter. maybe blow gently with a manual bulb - gently, or use a soft brush. Be very careful to not release your grip on the shutter release button while doing it - could damage the shutter if it tries to close with something in there.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

If my memory isn't fading too much, I recall that it could be the frilling (I don't know if this is the correct word in English) of one of the ribbons holding the curtain of the shutter.
The Leica shutter, made of cloth, is attached to one of the shutter rolls with ribbons just closely to the border out of the frame. When these get worn (ravel out), just like the curtain itself, some of the weaving threads can hang out and, as in your case, can 'block' the light.
These ribbons are rolled out when the curtain itself is rolled up to open the gate during exposure, there are two rolls (cylinders actually) in the shutter system, one on each side, on which these ribbons and the shutter curtain are attached.
Actually there are two curtains one starter and one follower, forming the famous variable slit, both with ribbons.

Sorry if my description isn't so clear, explaining the Leica shutter in a 'foreign' to me language isn't that easy, and it's more than 25 years ago when I saw a Leica M camera dismantled and the shutter mechanism exposed...

I am afraid that some repairing on this camera might force itself soon or later...
In the meantime don't touch nor pull these frills...

 

[Twotone]

If my memory isn't fading too much, I recall that it could be the frilling (I don't know if this is the correct word in English) of one of the ribbons holding the curtain of the shutter.
The Leica shutter, made of cloth, is attached to one of the shutter rolls with ribbons just closely to the border out of the frame. When these get worn (ravel out), just like the curtain itself, some of the weaving threads can hang out and, as in your case, can 'block' the light.
These ribbons are rolled out when the curtain itself is rolled up to open the gate during exposure, there are two rolls (cylinders actually) in the shutter system, one on each side, on which these ribbons and the shutter curtain are attached.
Actually there are two curtains one starter and one follower, forming the famous variable slit, both with ribbons.

Sorry if my description isn't so clear, explaining the Leica shutter in a 'foreign' to me language isn't that easy, and it's more than 25 years ago when I saw a Leica M camera dismantled and the shutter mechanism exposed...

I am afraid that some repairing on this camera might force itself soon or later...
In the meantime don't touch nor pull these frills...

Thanks so much for this explanation, this makes sense

I am going to get it serviced soon, and will get them to check the ribbons etc and replace as required.

Thanks

 

[Twotone]

Be careful blowing in the vicinity of the cloth shutter. maybe blow gently with a manual bulb - gently, or use a soft brush. Be very careful to not release your grip on the shutter release button while doing it - could damage the shutter if it tries to close with something in there.

Many thanks, will do

 

[SodaAnt]

When you figure it out, come back and let us know what it was.

 

[Twotone]

When you figure it out, come back and let us know what it was.

Thanks!

So I've put a few rolls through it and the fibres have gone. I did as people suggested (very similar what I had already done but probably a bit more thoroughly) and that did the job.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks!

So I've put a few rolls through it and the fibres have gone. I did as people suggested (very similar what I had already done but probably a bit more thoroughly) and that did the job.

Another Photrio success story.