strange marks on negative

chris77 · Dec 17, 2016

acros 100, developed in pyrocat hd 1:1:100, minimal agitation (presoak 3 min, then developed in paterson tank, inverted 1min, and after that 10 seconds ever 3 min, total of 12min)
fixed in fresh fixer.

can it be a faulty batch? or that the film was in the fridge (in his blister) leading to condensation?

it happened also a while ago, i think also with acros, not sure..

comments appreciated.
good night from paris
chris

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

wow. over 50 clicks and not one reply.. hmmm... well well well, must be pretty uncommon.

R.Gould · Dec 18, 2016

looks to me as if the areas shown are not developed or developed fully,could be that the reel slid up slightly on the colum, it can happen with patterson reels it happened to me many years ago, I learnt that it pays to use a little more developer than the tank says, I use 600ml with 120 rather than the 500ml, The other answer is to use a rubber band tight around the center coloum above the reel

AgX · Dec 18, 2016

If they were not developed fully the density (as seen at the lower edgde) would not been lower than D(b+f).

It could be something diffusing added to the emulsion, or the emulsion being partially lost.
I do not think we can examin the artefact based just on that image.

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

R.Gould said:
looks to me as if the areas shown are not developed or developed fully,could be that the reel slid up slightly on the colum, it can happen with patterson reels it happened to me many years ago, I learnt that it pays to use a little more developer than the tank says, I use 600ml with 120 rather than the 500ml, The other answer is to use a rubber band tight around the center coloum above the reel

well, i do use 600 ml. and if this were the case, then it would only affect one side of the strip... thanks, but its not that i guess..

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

AgX said:
If they were not developed fully the density (as seen at the lower edgde) would not been lower than D(b+f).

It could be something diffusing added to the emulsion, or the emulsion being partially lost.
I do not think we can examin the artefact based just on that image.

ok. will up a better image right away..
its an accidental double exposure. shows the marks even better... i am more and more convinced its the emulsion...

jvo · Dec 18, 2016

dot

parts of emulsion separated from base.

bvy · Dec 18, 2016

I agree it looks like emulsion separating from the base. It's the same problem I've had and have posted about extensively here, though yours is on a much larger scale. I haven't figured out what variables exacerbate it, because I've changed everything about my workflow and process. The only thing I haven't fully explored is if it's related to keeping the film frozen.

Acros is a beautiful film but seems to require special handling.

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

bvy said:
I agree it looks like emulsion separating from the base. It's the same problem I've had and have posted about extensively here, though yours is on a much larger scale. I haven't figured out what variables exacerbate it, because I've changed everything about my workflow and process. The only thing I haven't fully explored is if it's related to keeping the film frozen.

Acros is a beautiful film but seems to require special handling.

which developer did you use?

bvy · Dec 18, 2016

_*_ said:
which developer did you use?

I've used HC-110 in different dilutions and XTOL 1+1. Choice of developer didn't have any effect.

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

bvy said:
I've used HC-110 in different dilutions and XTOL 1+1. Choice of developer didn't have any effect.

the only common thing is that we both have been storing it in the fridge (or freezer in your case). but hey.. who doesnt? maybe a faulty batch after all?

bvy · Dec 18, 2016

_*_ said:
the only common thing is that we both have been storing it in the fridge (or freezer in your case). but hey.. who doesnt? maybe a faulty batch after all?

I don't know. The damage in your case is pretty severe, and signs of handling are clearly visible (I see "brush marks" in one spot). Other emulsions might stand up to it better such that it's not a problem, but Acros is known to be a soft emulsion -- hence my comment about special handling.

What temperature did you process at? Did you subject the film to any sudden changes of temperature in the course of changing baths?

pdeeh · Dec 18, 2016

_*_ said:
wow. over 50 clicks and not one reply.. hmmm... well well well, must be pretty uncommon.

exactly.
the idea of a faulty batch is often trotted out but is quite incredibly rare.
user error is the cause of nearly every single problem people ever have with film

DWThomas · Dec 18, 2016

_*_ said:
the only common thing is that we both have been storing it in the fridge (or freezer in your case). but hey.. who doesnt? maybe a faulty batch after all?

Hmmm -- I don't, some IR film is the only thing I've stored cold. Acros a year or three past the date still works fine after being stored in my living quarters (which are admittedly air conditioned in the summer). I've shot a fair amount of 120 Acros over the past 8 or 9 years, do not pre-soak, develop in HC110 1+63, and can't say I've ever seen a problem with it.

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

bvy said:
I don't know. The damage in your case is pretty severe, and signs of handling are clearly visible (I see "brush marks" in one spot). Other emulsions might stand up to it better such that it's not a problem, but Acros is known to be a soft emulsion -- hence my comment about special handling.

What temperature did you process at? Did you subject the film to any sudden changes of temperature in the course of changing baths?

well, after i had seem that the strip was messed up, i didnt pay attention to it. so there might be marks from handling. normal temp. around 20c. no sudden changes at all..

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

DWThomas said:
Hmmm -- I don't, some IR film is the only thing I've stored cold. Acros a year or three past the date still works fine after being stored in my living quarters (which are admittedly air conditioned in the summer). I've shot a fair amount of 120 Acros over the past 8 or 9 years, do not pre-soak, develop in HC110 1+63, and can't say I've ever seen a problem with it.

the strange thing is that i have been processing acros for a while in exactly the way i described, and it was fine until recently..

chris77 · Dec 18, 2016

pdeeh said:
exactly.
the idea of a faulty batch is often trotted out but is quite incredibly rare.
user error is the cause of nearly every single problem people ever have with film

oh... thanks for enlightening me

Ian Grant · Dec 18, 2016

When some of us went on an Ilford factory tour a few years ago we were told many problems with films came from refrigeration and freezing, they need to warm up slowly.

Acros has quite a soft emulsion so it's likely the damage was caused by the fridge and warming. I've used it with Pyrocat HD 1+1 to 100 a few times usually at 27ºC while in turkey with no problems. I keep my films in a bottom drawer even when the outside temperature is over 40ºC, luckily we live in a ground floor apartment so it stays relatively cool.

Ian

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2016

Not enough chemicals in the tank, the reel slipped up on the post, emulsion separating, film not allowed enough time to thaw ... any of these, but one thing is clear to me ===> it is not the fault of the developer.

strange marks on negative

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