Strange happenings with vdb prints

[ann]

this weekend i am doing a VDB workshop.

On tues. i mixed a new batch of chemistry, using the same formula , with the same methods as i have been doing for some time.

Every thing appeared to be ok, the coating color looked as it should; however, when clearing the prints, they never turned to brown or anthing closely looking like a brown.

We used citric acid washing baths, 3 for 2 minutes each, a weak solution of hypo (using the same formula i have been using for years) and nothing changed.

I tried a weaken solutin of commerical fixer, no changes.

Toned in selenium ,no changes.

the crazy things never switched color, except to get a bit darker ugly pissy yellow shade.

Logical thinking leads me to decide the chemistry has gone off. Any other thoughts ?

The silver nitrate looked fine, but then so did the ferri (the green version).

I plan to buy a new batch of chemistry, but that is for the future, any thoughts about what could be done, except to practice coating techniques to aid in making these prints do what they should be doing?

It will be interesting to see what they look like tomorrow morning, but i don't hold out much hope

ps. we tried single coating, double coating, brushes, puddle pushes and stood on one foot to see if that might change what is happening. But alas and alack that didn't help at all.

The exposure look fine when they come out of the uv box, but once they get wet , everything goes down hill.

And, just to make things clear, i have successful make vdb prints for years using the same forumulas etc. so it isn' t as if we have not been successful in this environment.

 

[smieglitz]

Ann,

I've found there is not much change in color or density if I use a 2% citric acid bath as the initial wash. Without such a wash, the color and density always changes color drastically in the weak 2% hypo bath I employ.

Because of this, I suspect the hypo is the culprit in your case. Try one with a plain water rinse at first (instead of citric acid) followed by a fresh hypo bath.

Can you post an example?

Joe

 

[RobertP]

Would it do any good to check your silver nitrate for things like specific gravity and ph like we do for wet plate. I know the processes are two entirely different animals. I'm just throwing an idea out there that may not have any relevance at all.

 

[ann]

the hypo was fresh, mixed a few minutes before using.

i will try the water wash first and see what happens.

if i had never done these before i would suspect all sorts of "user errors"

i am beginning to lean toward a silver nitrate problem . am tempted to add some more silver nitrate from a new container and see what happens. At this point i figure what the heck.

 

[RobertP]

Ann, Is there any proven test out there that you can do on you silver nitrate that can give an idea if that is where he problem lies. Robert....p.s.... I've loved VDB every since seeing Wynn White's work.

 

[ann]

Robert, i don't know. I will call Bostick and Sullivan tomorrow and see what they have to say.

I am going to ask my students today if they want to give adding some silver nitrate to the mix. I don't think they will mind; they are having a great time and aren't really upset with the color as i am as severalf them are print makers not photographers and they have a different take on what is happening. They love the process and the images regardless of the color so not all is lost.

Thanks for your suggestions.

I am the only one grinding her teeth

 

[photomc]

Well Ann, you do leave us a puzzle...sorry, just saw this. There just isn't much that can go wrong - my first impression is that either the ferric ammonium citrate or tartaric acid have gone off for some reason - though it could be the silver nitrate. From your description it sounds like there is either little or no oxidation occuring when you place it in the thiosulfate (fix).

Adding some of the sliver nitrate will not hurt at this point, but if the overburshed areas are staying yellow not sure what to tell you. Any chance the chemistry was mis-labeled? Guessing it came for B&S, so not likely.

I looked through the Chris James book to see if it would yield a clue, but nothing really. Let us know what/if you find anything.

 

[ann]

mike,

i review james book yesterday during class,

i had decided the silver was off , or mis measured (which is always possible to get side tracked), however , today when we got to the lab the prints had dried down and changed toned, greatly so.

I discuss my thoughts with the class about the silver nitrate and thought i would add some to the mixture in hopes of enhancing the process. They decided that they were happy with the color shift and would rather just continue forward. So, we did, and........... things reacted as one would expectjthey shift tone during the wash cycle and of course with fix and then with the toning. Drives me crazy when the gremlins get loose in the darkroom.

Todays prints look wonderful, altho, i am a bit afraid a few will dry down a bit darker than some would like.

Go figure.

THanks for everyone's support and help.