Strange forms on reversal B&W

avortex · Aug 29, 2017

I'm completely shocked with the strange result I got yesterday.
These pictures are Ilford HP5+ reversal processed. Look at those worms on them.
Can't find an explanation about what happened here. Have you seen something similar before?
By the way, the bleach was a dichromate one, so they're not the streaks that sometimes are caused by Permanganate.

Any help identifying the problem would be very appreciated

NedL · Aug 29, 2017

I don't know but that last one looks kinda cool.

If you took it in the past 2 months you might consider submitting it to the current MSA...

Kino · Aug 29, 2017

Looks like the emulsion is being melted off by something running down the film!

Europan · Aug 30, 2017

Heavy case of reticulation. What acid dou you use with the bleach bath?

AgX · Aug 30, 2017

Not only reticulation.
But, more impressive, partially emulsion lift-off with settling-down in crinkled state.

The pattern of this lift-off is quite peculiar though.

revdoc · Aug 30, 2017

I've seen mould growing in patterns like that, but never on film.

pdeeh · Aug 30, 2017

I for one welcome our new worm overlords

darkosaric · Aug 30, 2017

I would say happy accident . +1 for looking cool!

avortex · Aug 30, 2017

Thanks for the answers!
The acid used in the bleach was sulfuric, but it never gave me problems. The fogging redeveloper had sodium hydroxide on it and again, it never gave me any trouble. Processing was done at 24ºC.
Some curious facts:
- These worms only appear on four consecutive pictures from the entire roll.
- They don't appear on the black borders, only inside the picture and only on the upper part.
- It shocks me that the worms seem to stop when they touch the buildings. It's incredible specially on the last picture.

Temperatures were pretty warm these days around here. Sure the roll has suffered a lot of heat during the day of transport to my home, but I don't know if this could be related to the problem.

guangong · Aug 30, 2017

What I don't understand is why these strange patters are only in the upper parts of each fram. If result of development process wouldn't they be distributed throughout frames. I due reversal process b/w for movie film and have done b/w slides in the past. Even a fault with film would not produce such localized parrerns. Never seen anything like this. Could the fault lie in the camera or lens? A mistake in development would create a mess all over the place...over time I have messed up several hundred feet of film. What a mystery!

twelvetone12 · Aug 30, 2017

Could you post a photograph of the entire strip of film containing the three frames? It is weird indeed!

avortex · Aug 30, 2017

Yes, it's a big mistery!
I don't have the entire strip, as I've framed it already. The roll is for a friend of mine.
I'm suspecting two things:
-The worms appear only on the picture and not of the black borders because of the higher density of the emulsion on the black parts (Dmax is 3,70). Does it make sense?
Anyway, as guangong points out, if it's a processing issue, the worms should be more randomly distributed.
- Is it possible that the film had already some kind of fungus? Perhaps it sounds a bit crazy, but I'm completely lost.

Kino · Aug 30, 2017

I would say that it is a good chance that fungus grew on the film, breaking down the emulsion in the path of growth. Development appears to have lifted the emulsion off the base in blisters, which caused the streamers of emulsion.

I'll bet you couldn't make it happen again if you tried!

avortex · Aug 30, 2017

Perhaps that's the reason. But the film gave an excellent Dmax, which is not possible with HP5 unless fresh film is used.
Such a big fungus must need a lot of time growing on the film under very warm and humid conditions, but perhaps I'm wrong.

And... why does the streaks are extended till the limits of the buildings?

Kino · Aug 30, 2017

It's all guesswork on my part... Who knows?

It's been my experience that something as weird as this will probably never be totally solved, and the effort to solve it takes substantially away from other efforts, so it's not worth the effort beyond idle speculation...

Just my 2 cents.

avortex · Aug 30, 2017

I agree, Kino.
I was just looking for a possible explanation. It's too weird!

MattKing · Aug 30, 2017

pdeeh said:
I for one welcome our new worm overlords

Muad'Dib has returned?

Kino · Aug 30, 2017

avortex said:
I agree, Kino.
I was just looking for a possible explanation. It's too weird!

I agree! Kinda spooky!

pdeeh · Aug 30, 2017

MattKing said:
Muad'Dib has returned?

I know the ways of the Desert

Kevin Harding · Aug 30, 2017

On two of the images the damage extends into the buildings, so I don't think there's anything special there.

avortex · Aug 31, 2017

Kevin Harding said:
On two of the images the damage extends into the buildings, so I don't think there's anything special there.

Take a second look. Even the streaks that appear into the buildings have a curious behavior: some follow strictly the lines on the wall. Others extend only into the wall without touching the borders.

Europan · Sep 1, 2017

I have no idea what happened here.

winger · Sep 1, 2017

avortex said:
The worms appear only on the picture and not of the black borders because of the higher density of the emulsion on the black parts (Dmax is 3,70). Does it make sense?

That is basically what happens with Mordançage. That uses cupric chloride, acetic acid, and hydrogen peroxide. In that, only the blackest areas are lifted - it can be done on film or prints, but it affects the whole area. The worm pattern of yours indicates something else is going on, too, though. This is a new one for me.

avortex · Sep 6, 2017

I'm suspecting certain things: Revising the sodium hydroxide solution, I saw that some kind of precipitate -like strands- is inside, perhaps due to the hydroxide eating the plastic of the bottle.
When the film was hanging dry, I saw in those affected areas that something strange, like rests of candy, was adhered to it.

AgX · Sep 6, 2017

In this case it is not a precipitate. Instead the emulsion has gone, and seemingly settled again in crincled state.

Strange forms on reversal B&W

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