Strange Dust Problem

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

Yesterday I developed 2 rolls of Acros. One was 120 size while the other was 135 size. Both were in the same tank and I processed them as usual and hang them out to dry. This morning I scanned them and found that the 135 film was dusty beyond belief. Absolutely destroyed, useless images for the most part as the dust was just massive. Then I scanned the 120 film and found no dust at all! They both dried hanging on the same hanger.

How is this possible?

sfaber17 · Mar 27, 2016

Either the 135 got close to a dusty surface, or you didn't have the same final rinse (photoflow?) on each.
Another possibility is if you re-use photoflow/rinse and the 135 came after the 120.

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

sfaber17 said:
Either the 135 got close to a dusty surface, or you didn't have the same final rinse (photoflow?) on each.
Another possibility is if you re-use photoflow/rinse and the 135 came after the 120.

I wasnt clear....they were processed in the same tank, at the same time. All fluids used were on both rolls of film and they hung out to dry in the same location at the same time.

MattKing · Mar 27, 2016

What is the humidity like where you dry your film?

Do you squeegee your films before drying? That can lead to static.

bvy · Mar 27, 2016

Well, they couldn't have been exposed in the same camera then. Okay, actually they could have, but odds are they weren't. Could the 35mm camera have somehow "polluted" your film as it was being advanced?

Photo Engineer · Mar 27, 2016

Or, could it have been contamination at the factory?

PE

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

bvy said:
Well, they couldn't have been exposed in the same camera then. Okay, actually they could have, but odds are they weren't. Could the 35mm camera have somehow "polluted" your film as it was being advanced?

No they werent. I have no camera that shoots both 120 and 135 film.

No idea if the 135 camera could have dusted up the film. It's a "new" camera for me (EOS 1-V), first roll through it. I didnt see anything unusual inside the film chamber.

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Or, could it have been contamination at the factory?

PE

No way to know that!

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

MattKing said:
What is the humidity like where you dry your film?

Do you squeegee your films before drying? That can lead to static.

Humidity is on the dry side, but I dont know what the actual value is. Did not squeegee the film.

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

If dust landed on dry film, such as while inside the camera, would it stay on the film during processing? I would have thought that it was still washable if the dust landed on dry film. Only wet film was a dust risk. Am I wrong?

StephenT · Mar 27, 2016

Like PE, my guess is an issue with the film itself. Shoot another roll in the 1V, NOT from the same batch, and see what happens. Actually, I would shoot something from Ilford or Kodak for comparison. I don't think the problem is with the 1V.

Are you loading your own 35mm from bulk? Oops....I don't think Acros is available in bulk if I remember right.

Photo Engineer · Mar 27, 2016

Contamination during processing would show up on both rolls, and would be partly embedded in the film emulsion itself. At the factory it could be on the surface or embedded in the emulsion but there is, as you say, no way to tell when it happened.

Generally, films with poor antistats collect dust after processing. If done before exposure, you see white dots on the film where the dust was. If after exposure or processing you see normal imaging if the dust is removed.

PE

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

StephenT said:
Like PE, my guess is an issue with the film itself. Shoot another roll in the 1V, NOT from the same batch, and see what happens. Actually, I would shoot something from Ilford or Kodak for comparison. I don't think the problem is with the 1V.

Are you loading your own 35mm from bulk? Oops....I don't think Acros is available in bulk if I remember right.

I shot a roll of Portra 160 today in the 1V. It will take up to 7 days to get it back. I'll see then if there is any dust on the film, coming from the camera.

albada · Mar 27, 2016

Unlike 120, 35mm has a felt liner on its cartridge. Is the felt dusty? That would indicate dusty film or environment. Do its fibers come off when you rub it? That would indicate faulty felt.

Mark Overton

RattyMouse · Mar 27, 2016

albada said:
Unlike 120, 35mm has a felt liner on its cartridge. Is the felt dusty? That would indicate dusty film or environment. Do its fibers come off when you rub it? That would indicate faulty felt.

Mark Overton

Sadly I dont have that anymore to check.

Here's an example of the awful damage to the film.

Dusty Image

RattyMouse
Mar 27, 2016
1

Horrible dust on a recent batch of film

StephenT · Mar 28, 2016

re: image: WOW! I think that is an issue with the film itself. I don't believe it is the camera or the processing.

Patrick Robert James · Mar 28, 2016

I can't believe people (even PE) are blaming Fuji for this. Did you think that maybe your handling of the film caused the dust? Or the scanner is dirty? Have you tried cleaning the film? What side is the dust on?

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2016

Patrick, even Kodak makes a mistake from time to time so lighten up! Maybe Fuji did err. IDK. We don't have enough evidence to say anything yet. If I had it in my hands I might make some better guesses.

PE

Patrick Robert James · Mar 28, 2016

Ron, I have the utmost respect for you, but I think the odds that Fuji messed up is minuscule compared to the odds that the OP caused it himself.

And I am as light as a feather! Or maybe light as about 12 million of them.

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2016

Well, Patrick, we really have no way of knowing do we.

However, here is a scenario for you.

Sediment in the developer, 35mm film at the bottom of the tank, poor agitation = bingo, the problem.

Without the film in hand I could spin many scenarios and even with the film the answer will be very difficult to come by if at all.

PE

Kirks518 · Mar 28, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Well, Patrick, we really have no way of knowing do we.

However, here is a scenario for you.

Sediment in the developer, 35mm film at the bottom of the tank, poor agitation = bingo, the problem.

Without the film in hand I could spin many scenarios and even with the film the answer will be very difficult to come by if at all.

PE

I was thinking maybe old-ish fixer with sediment? It happened to me, and looked like I used the negative as a dust rag.

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2016

Whatever solution, that might be it, or not.

PE

RattyMouse · Mar 29, 2016

Kirks518 said:
I was thinking maybe old-ish fixer with sediment? It happened to me, and looked like I used the negative as a dust rag.

Remember, I processed two rolls of film simultaneously. Both were Acros but one roll was 120 size and the other was 135. The 120 sized film was spotless. The 135 film was and is, unuseable.

RattyMouse · Mar 29, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Well, Patrick, we really have no way of knowing do we.

However, here is a scenario for you.

Sediment in the developer, 35mm film at the bottom of the tank, poor agitation = bingo, the problem.

Without the film in hand I could spin many scenarios and even with the film the answer will be very difficult to come by if at all.

PE

These films were developed in freshly prepared HC-110, Dilution E.

RattyMouse · Mar 29, 2016

Patrick Robert James said:
I can't believe people (even PE) are blaming Fuji for this. Did you think that maybe your handling of the film caused the dust? Or the scanner is dirty? Have you tried cleaning the film? What side is the dust on?

Again, I processed two films SIMULTANEOUSLY. One had massive dust, the other did not. All were in the same fluids, at the same time, and dried in the same area, at the same time. The same scanner scanned both films. One is hideously dusty, the other is spotless. I do not understand why.

Strange Dust Problem

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