Storing film against environmental radiation - viable or not?

As far as I know, freezing the film/paper has its limits because the environmental radiation also fogs film and this is especially true with faster films.

As product discontinuations are normal and we can't fight against them, stockpiling is usually an option and it works well a few years past the date if freezed.

However, the question is, is it viable (at home) to try to restrict the environmental radiation also? Lead is AFAIK the best affordable material to reduce it, but how thick it has to be to work? If I make a box of 5mm or 1cm lead and put it inside the freezer at -20C, does the lead play any role at this thickness? Does it stop the radiation well enough?

As far as I can remember, cosmic rays are one (if not the main) cause of most film fogging due to age. These cannot be protected against in any practical way. There may be other factors as well, but I think we're out of luck as far as extremely long-term storage of sensitive materials goes.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

You need 1cm of lead to filter out 50% of the radiation. Radiation would then need double time to do same damage. Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

At least some of it passes through the earth before it gets to the film in your fridge. 1 cm of lead, or even many cm's of lead aren't going to help.

Just keep your film below the giant, underground bubble chambers being used around the world...I think Japan has a nice one if I'm not mistaken - yes, it's a bit of a hassle getting at it when you need it but that's about the best place you could go.......though I would still keep it in a lead storage facility.

Question: Are you planning on stockpiling before you're put into a cryogenic state? If so find yourself a nice, dense moon somewhere toward the outer edges of the solar system and tunnel nice and deep into it's crust.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes!

Single material shielding from cosmic radiation will substitute cosmic radiation by second radiation. From a theoretical point of view a shielding made from staggered materials of the right choice would be the solution.

I believe I have read you read about 6 feet of lead all around. I also vagely recall a salt mine , but not sure.

Either way, no good solutions.

Photo paper is mostly being made today with chemicals that produce artificial aging so the manufacturer can make and sell immediately. Cold storage does not prolong life of modern papers significantly.

As an aside, I have some inherited Kodak Medalist paper that expired in 1969. Still good.

Unless you hate computers, digital is the way to go. Modern full frame digis like the Nikon D700 are fantastic cameras. Use your old Nikkor lenses on them. I do. There are ways to simulate grain , sharp or mushy, and keep it confined to the midtones, with photoshop.

There is a long thread on this subject with more details on radiation shielding. It was about a year or two ago IIRC.

The radiation coming through the earth is a particle family typified by neutrinos. Little, if any damage is done by those particles. The main contributors are Cosmic Rays and Radon gas found in some homes with basements.

PE

Ronald Moravec said:

As an aside, I have some inherited Kodak Medalist paper that expired in 1969. Still good.

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That's good to hear! I have a few hundred sheets of Medalist sitting in storage - probably '70's expiry. I LOVE that paper Soup's on!

Ronald Moravec said:

Unless you hate computers, digital is the way to go. Modern full frame digis like the Nikon D700 are fantastic cameras. Use your old Nikkor lenses on them. I do. There are ways to simulate grain , sharp or mushy, and keep it confined to the midtones, with photoshop.

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Let's keep this thread on topic. The OP was asking about storing papers.

i think the late michael jackson used an o2 tent so cosmic rays didn't make him age
prematurely, maybe a big o2 tent around the freezer will work for film and paper ?

jnanian said:

i think the late michael jackson used an o2 tent so cosmic rays didn't make him age
prematurely, maybe a big o2 tent around the freezer will work for film and paper ?

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A great place to enjoy a fine cigar as well.

jnanian said:

i think the late michael jackson used an o2 tent so cosmic rays didn't make him age
prematurely, maybe a big o2 tent around the freezer will work for film and paper ?

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Suppose that would work, if like MJ, one replaced the emulsion every few months

Ronald Moravec said:

... There are ways to simulate grain , sharp or mushy, and keep it confined to the midtones, with photoshop ...

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I'm really uncomfortable with that. That's like putting fake wood texture on plastic siding and steel doors, or gluing thin veneer stone onto a wood frame structure. Digital photos have nothing intrinsically wrong with them, but digital is digital, and film is film, and I would advocate that they each be allowed to look like their own nature.

Don't mistake me. I am not engaging in an anti-digital rant here. I have a D-700 also. It's a really great camera, and for color it's what I happily use. And I do not want to derail the basic conversation in this thread, but the thought of faked up grain repulses me. The same goes for most digitally imposed textures and a flood of "overprocessed" images in general, some HDR monstrosities in particular.

To keep my talk on the subject of analog photography, some of the reasons I use film for B&W are in it's inherent nature, the grain, the huge SBR responsiveness with appropriate development, the tolerance of long exposure, and - back to the thread at hand here - the archival trustworthiness of a piece of film.

I just don't know how long digital technologies will allow me to access any given file type or storage technology. I have read that video already has pretty much lost a big piece of it's early history to changing technologies, that many old tapes are technologically marooned by obsolete formats and unrepairable machines.

So, my thoughts for the OP are that it's a good idea to store film and paper. If you are really worried about the slight effects of environmental radiations, lead might help. If everything is kept really cold in a freezer, your film and paper, while it may not last forever, will outlast you. Lead cladding may further ensure it will outlast you by a good long while.

JBrunner said:

A great place to enjoy a fine cigar as well.

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Especially if you don't have a lot of time.


Steve.

Steve Smith said:

Especially if you don't have a lot of time.


Steve.

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But you're still probably gonna be late.


(other dude... ixnay on the igitalday, eh?)