Stop Bath rotten egg smell

ericdan · Mar 27, 2019

My Adox Citric Acid stop bath smelled really strong of rotten eggs yesterday.
This was a relatively fresh mix. Ran at lost ten 5x7 through.
I’ve never had that problem before with Adox or any other stop bath.
Dumped the mix and washed tray and bottle and mixed up a fresh one. The smell is gone now even after two nights of running prints through.

What could’ve caused this smell?
Decontamination?
I use distilled water for chemicals that I reuse. I also tone in Selenium and use HCA.

jvo · Mar 27, 2019

hmmm... usually fixer near exhaustion...

Prest_400 · Mar 27, 2019

I mixed a 1+7 batch a month ago and it started smelling the following day (IIRC they give times for 1+4 and 1+7). I've used it to fix paper and film and seemed to work normally (7 rolls and 6 sheets of 8x10). Did a clip test on TriX last week, that cleared at 4 mins (rule of thumb 2x clearing time = 8 recommended mins for 1+7 on bottle). I might as well toss it tomorrow, and make a new mix at 1+4 which shortens film fixing quite a bit.
I wonder as well, it's the adox rapid fixer too. Community darkroom has 5L Agfa fixer which I can use, and may, just to compare.

ericdan · Mar 27, 2019

I know. I also thought it was the fixer at first. I smelled the tray and bottle but it wasn’t. That was a fresh mix as well. Did a clip test to confirm. The fixer didn’t smell and wasn’t anywhere close to exhaustion.
Absolutely certain it was the stop bath as I isolated that tray and bottle and confirmed the smell.

glbeas · Mar 27, 2019

Any chance you got some selenium into the stop bath? Ive notice some bad smells from selenium on occasion.

ericdan · Mar 27, 2019

Unlikely but certainly not impossible.
That would highlight sloppiness in my workflow I need to corrrct.

I’ll try to contaminate a small sample of stopbath with Selenium and see if I can reproduce the issue.

jim10219 · Mar 27, 2019

Rotten eggs means sulfur or hydrogen sulfide. It could have come from your water if you were using tap water. Sometimes bacteria can bloom at the source and cause a sudden spike in that. It happens often in here in the fall when the lakes turn over. Or it could have been contamination from something else, like maybe the stop bath tray was an old fixer tray that didn't get cleaned out and allowed sulfur bacteria to grow and you activated them when you added the water.

mshchem · Mar 28, 2019

Yeah, there is plenty of water supplies that have sulfur smell issues. Based on my experience regular old Kodak F5 or equivalent sodium thiosulfate fixer will just about drive me out of the darkroom. Municipal water can be all over the place. Biofilms form in the system and can cause all sorts of problems. I use RO water for all solutions .

ericdan · Mar 28, 2019

I only use distilled water to mix up my chemicals. It must've been tap water residue from washing trays then.

Rudeofus · Mar 28, 2019

Is there a chance, that Sulfite carried over from developer released Sulfur Dioxide when it hit the acidic stop bath? You could take a small sample of fresh stop bath and add a few droplets of your developer to verify this.

Prest_400 · Mar 28, 2019

ericdan said:
I know. I also thought it was the fixer at first.

This was a sample of excellent late night writing... I read Fix and not Stop bath! Anyhow, the discussion is very useful as it's the fixer in my case that smells and it could be from mixing containers that are used for everything in the community darkrood; and the use of a water rinse instead of stop bath.
I'll mix a bit of stop for the next time as the insight of sulphur from developer could be it. HC110 here

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2019

Probably bacteria growth in the Stop. This is not unusual in a CA Stop. To prevent, add some Benzoic Acid, about 1 g/l to it.

PE

trendland · Mar 28, 2019

ericdan said:
My Adox Citric Acid stop bath smelled really strong of rotten eggs yesterday.
This was a relatively fresh mix. Ran at lost ten 5x7 through.
I’ve never had that problem before with Adox or any other stop bath.
Dumped the mix and washed tray and bottle and mixed up a fresh one. The smell is gone now even after two nights of running prints through.

What could’ve caused this smell?
Decontamination?
I use distilled water for chemicals that I reuse. I also tone in Selenium and use HCA.

I realy can't say what kind of bacteries love environments of that ph YOU offer with your stop bath!
But be sure there are all kind of this little biests want to eat your films want to eat plastics a.s.o!
At ALL PH at temperatures none of use can belive! (Remember black smokers)!
So live allways will find its way - that seams to happen with your stop bath!
Yes YOU have used destilled water - but that isn't a reason not to have a colony of some billions
of them!
YOU should have a workflow like a hospiital! But at last your films wich will come in contact with
the stop bath and contaminate!
The only thing you can do is to use NEW CANISTERS - what is expensive!
But are you able to clean your stop bath CANISTERS like a hospital will do?

with regards

PS : Of course that will end with mass murder but you have to set priority - therefore it IS ALLOWED!
PSS : To make environments more unatractive will cause : lower temperature, lower ph, lower light!
But that is just a question of time : Then you create a species of aggressive characteristics be aware of them - they don't like films, they don't feel confortable with plastics because they want to eat humans and they are very hungry and dangerous - they come out of THE DARK

!

with regards!

PS : Come on : "You murderer"!

trendland · Mar 28, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Probably bacteria growth in the Stop. This is not unusual in a CA Stop. To prevent, add some Benzoic Acid, about 1 g/l to it.

PE

Ahh - the expert : E210 ! Well what is good for food can also be used for stop bath!
What about silver? Some mililiters of fixing bath can be enough?

PS : I have had no problems with exeption of one time! Today there are CANISTERS of massive age
from stop bath! I forgot them - but it is still OK! I guess there is allways a max. use from films
(then you would also need new stop bath)!

trendland · Mar 28, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Probably bacteria growth in the Stop. This is not unusual in a CA Stop. To prevent, add some Benzoic Acid, about 1 g/l to it.

PE

Be sure I sometimes (a good method BTW) don't read other posts if I have a spontanious hint!
Sometimes the first idea is the BEST idea - or is it allways?

So I am not "autophrasing" just your approach!

It looks like I see - but "I swear PE" I read your hint first after I wrote my reply ......
(After this I short read what others stated.........)

with greetings

trendland · Mar 28, 2019

ericdan said:
My Adox Citric Acid stop bath smelled really strong of rotten eggs yesterday.
This was a relatively fresh mix. Ran at lost ten 5x7 through.
I’ve never had that problem before with Adox or any other stop bath.
Dumped the mix and washed tray and bottle and mixed up a fresh one. The smell is gone now even after two nights of running prints through.

What could’ve caused this smell?
Decontamination?
I use distilled water for chemicals that I reuse. I also tone in Selenium and use HCA.

After reading twice : here is done your failure : "Dumped the mix and washed tray and bottle and mixed up a fresh one." you for sure don't have used "hot water" - right! (there is no need of hot water in darkroom normaly)!
So if you would have done "decontamination" in biological direction : hot water, alcohol a.s.o. (you did it in chemical direction) the problem would not came back so close!!
But who can know? It is the "accept" of failures what will form the genius!
(nice sentence in worste english - I have an idea of.)......

!

with regards

PS : Problem solved !

ericdan · May 16, 2019

Had the same issue again yesterday. Trays were definitely clean and stop bath was a fresh mix.
It was Adox stop bath again, but I think that makes no difference.
The only other thing different was that it happened after lith printing.
Maybe I cannot reuse stop bath that was used for lith.

KN4SMF · May 16, 2019

I'll never understand the citric stopbath people. Properly mixed acetic acid bath has a smell so faint it can't possibly offend anybody. And the environmental concern is nill, as an ordinary apple tree dumps more acetic acid on the ground as over ripe rotten apples. There is no photographic advantage of citric bath, and it doesn't keep. I can't think of one redeeming quality about it.

ericdan · May 16, 2019

I don't know to be honest. All stop baths seem to be citric nowadays. The only acetic one I've used was Fuji stop bath and that definitely had a very strong vinegar smell.
I did mix it according to instructions on the bottle.

KN4SMF · May 16, 2019

I always used Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. I believe it calls for 2 ounces to the gallon.Yes the solution does have a smell, but you have to stick your nose up to it and even then doesn't burn or sting. Even a tray full in a small closet isn't particularly offensive. If you can't get the above mentioned product, then you can use 28% acetic to about 6 ounces to the gallon. I suspect the reason that citric stopbath has become prevelent is because most European and American governments have become so extreme in their law-making. But it works, is harmless, and the working solution never goes bad. And the smell can only offend the most squeamish. Try it. Between the developer, stop bath, and acid hardening fixer in a small darkroom, it's the fixer that can offend, not the stop bath.

MattKing · May 16, 2019

My sense of smell must differ from KN4SMF - I use the Kodak Indicator stop bath for film, but the citric acid based indicator stop bath for prints, because I develop film in an area with lots of air flow, and make prints in a much more enclosed space.
I would use Kodak Indicator stop bath in both places if it wasn't for the odor. I would use citric acid based indicator stop bath in both places if it wasn't for the fact that it is more expensive and cannot be stored at working strength for very long before stuff starts to grow in it.
By the way, the Kodak Stop bath is much more concentrated, and therefore will cause more damage if it spills. Thus the more restrictive rules about shipping it.

KN4SMF · May 16, 2019

MattKing said:
My sense of smell must differ from KN4SMF - I use the Kodak Indicator stop bath for film, but the citric acid based indicator stop bath for prints, because I develop film in an area with lots of air flow, and make prints in a much more enclosed space.
I would use Kodak Indicator stop bath in both places if it wasn't for the odor. I would use citric acid based indicator stop bath in both places if it wasn't for the fact that it is more expensive and cannot be stored at working strength for very long before stuff starts to grow in it.
By the way, the Kodak Stop bath is much more concentrated, and therefore will cause more damage if it spills. Thus the more restrictive rules about shipping it.

Might just be personal "odor tolerance" I've lived with city smells like living 20 feet from major highways, and in the country with turkey houses. Tobacco smoke, sepia toner, a dead skunk, and every other smell that makes other squeamish. Now those disgusting cheese balls that get put out at Christmas that others actually put on a cracker... that's just nasty. Acetic acid stop bath is the best of its usage. You never see a thread about fungus, smells, or longevity with it.

MattKing · May 17, 2019

KN4SMF said:
Acetic acid stop bath is the best of its usage. You never see a thread about fungus, smells, or longevity with it.

It will, however, strip the finish from a laminate counter top.

ericdan · May 17, 2019

No Kodak stop bath available here in Tokyo. Lots of Fuji chemicals however. I assume it's the same thing. I work in a very small darkroom and didn't like the vinegar smell, but I mind it less than the rotten eggs.

KN4SMF · May 17, 2019

Matt King, you're an OK dude. Each to his own. To me, a darkroom is sights and smells, and sometimes taste, like developer on your fingers. It's a magic that a digital camera, a computer, and an inkjet printer can't begin to compete with. When I get to heaven and the head man is looking for photography and radio voluteers, I'll run to the signup desk. They took my Kodachrome away, but not my stop bath. Citric acid is for lemonade.

Stop Bath rotten egg smell

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