Sticky Paterson reels?

twelvetone12 said:

Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

Click to expand...

I load mine in an air conditioned "darkroom" (basically a closet). This helps to keep the film and the reel dry. If I feel the film is getting stuck on the reel, I give it a tap on the slide which typically dislodges the problem spot but does not know the film off of the reel. The last thing you want to do is start over. One needs to be very careful of bending the film.

At the end I started washing them with warm water, a toothbrush and a bit of soap after every use. Throughly rinsed, they never sticked again.

twelvetone12 said:

Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

Click to expand...

these and pretty much all plastic reels have to be bone dry to load film properly.I throw them into my drying cabinet before reuse.you may want to use a hair dryer if you don't have a cabinet

I have a hint that's worked for me: mostly people just push from the entrance gap and trust that the friction and leading edge won't get too frictiony or leadingy.

Because reels like this mostly let a thin edge of the film sneak past the spiral's edge I apply the push not only at the gap but alongside the depth of the spiral, this seems to help align the entire roll so it snakes forwards more smoothly. When the motion gets stuck I also find it handy to back off a rotation or two and guide the film leader past the spot in this way.

I still prefer stainless reels even though I use Jobo tanks these days and can't, I can load those at high speed and never have a problem.

< Cat among pigeons

Just what components of photoflo do you you all think will leave a sticky residue on plastic reels from Patterson and Jobo? Do you see a film of residue on the back of films that you have processed and dried? Didn't think so. Similarly Photoflo is not sticky when it's wet. it's action is the direct opposite.

Films are coated with gelatin which can be hydrated during processing and then dried afterwards to a solid state. When it is dry during film loading it will be subject to abrading while the film is being pushed through the spiral of a plastic reel. Particles of gelatin may be shed at this point which will sit in the grooves of the reel.

During processing the wet surface of the emulsion will be sticky, think flypaper. Two problems can arise from this:
1. Any particulates in suspension in your processing solutions will adhere to the emulsion and embed themselves.
2. Where the emulsion touches the film reel, gelatin can be transferred to the film reel.

Unless photoflo is shown to be a superior solvent/ softener of gelatin which I seriously doubt I can see no rationale for not doing the photoflo final soak with the film on the reel inside the tank.

The whole problem with sticky plastic reels revolves around moisture and gelatin. Either your reel is clean but not dry or excess humidity during loading will affect any residual gelatin that is stuck on the film reels or indeed the gelatin on the emulsion will be affected and will start to bind during loading.

Scrupulous cleaning and drying of plastic reels is they key to easy film loading along with humidity control when loading.

Photoflo is not the villain in this case.

/ cat slinks off>

Cheers one and all

john_s said:

After unloading developed film I put the reels and other tank components in a basin with a strong but dilute detergent (not the "kind to your hands" sort of thing) then rinse and dry thoroughly. I don't have a problem usually. If I'm having trouble and get flustered and hot and bothered and start to sweat a bit (depends on the weather obviously) it gets worse.

I find it helps a lot to straighten the start part of the film and I clip the corners a bit to help ease the film into and around the reel.

Click to expand...

Yes,clipping the corners at the start of the film helps to get it onto the reel easier for me too.

twelvetone12 said:

Does anyone have any idea?

Click to expand...

Sometimes, it simply isn't the reel.

With 135, if you are using a camera which advances the film "backwards" onto the take-up spool (and most do, though not often the simpler types of P&S), it can be worth leaving the roll in its cassette for 12 or 24 hours after rewinding to allow it to "relax".
What seems to happen is that the film retains it's "reverse curl" and this makes it harder to get onto the reel, particularly about 2/3s in.

I'm not claiming this as a Universal Truth, but simply personal experience - I always used to have problems getting film onto my Paterson reels when they came out of my SLR or RF cameras, but never from my XA.

But then just wind it onto the reel emulsion out.

I find that tapping the spiral on the work surface very often releases the sticking film.

Barry

twelvetone12 said:

Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

Click to expand...

I've had the exact same problem from my 3rd roll or so onwards. In my case the problem was solved abolishing the wetting agent, and thoroughly brushing the reels with a mild detergent and hot water, then rinsing and drying with a hair blower. Make sure the small metal spheres move freely, that could be causing you trouble too.

After that, I've had no more problems - I have even managed to use them wet, the thing is that when the reels are wet the "auto loader" won't work, you must start the film past the spheres and then hold the film with one hand in place, while you twist the reel with the other, effectively walking the reel into the film. It works OK but it's better if it is bone dry. It's much faster when dry too.

I've been using Paterson tanks and reels for 30 years. I have two suggestions:

1. keep the reels clean. Add a little hot water to a few teaspoons of baking soda, dip a toothbrush in the paste and scrub the inner surfaces of the reels.
2. clip a small bit of the corner of the leading edge of the film. For example, on a roll of 35mm, after you cut off the leader, cut a tiny triangular piece from each corner of the film. This reduces friction and makes it easier to get that last foot or so of film on the reel.

I also avoid 36 exposure rolls, load in a dark room - NOT a changing bag and make sure the reels are clean and DRY.

The under water thing suggested above works well too.