Sticky Paterson reels?

Sirius Glass · Nov 23, 2015

john_s said:
After unloading developed film I put the reels and other tank components in a basin with a strong but dilute detergent (not the "kind to your hands" sort of thing) then rinse and dry thoroughly. I don't have a problem usually. If I'm having trouble and get flustered and hot and bothered and start to sweat a bit (depends on the weather obviously) it gets worse.

I find it helps a lot to straighten the start part of the film and I clip the corners a bit to help ease the film into and around the reel.

Using a detergent, rather than a wetting agent such as PhotoFlo, is a bad idea. Detergents even though it has been diluted has perfumes and additive that are not good for film. There are many threads on APUG about this subject. Do not use any detergents, stick with wetting agents.

MattKing · Nov 23, 2015

john_s said:
After unloading developed film I put the reels and other tank components in a basin with a strong but dilute detergent (not the "kind to your hands" sort of thing) then rinse and dry thoroughly. I don't have a problem usually. If I'm having trouble and get flustered and hot and bothered and start to sweat a bit (depends on the weather obviously) it gets worse.

I find it helps a lot to straighten the start part of the film and I clip the corners a bit to help ease the film into and around the reel.

Sirius Glass said:
Using a detergent, rather than a wetting agent such as PhotoFlo, is a bad idea. Detergents even though it has been diluted has perfumes and additive that are not good for film. There are many threads on APUG about this subject. Do not use any detergents, stick with wetting agents.

As I read this, john s is using detergent to clean the remnants of wetting agent and gelatin from the reels, not as a wetting agent itself.

As long as the detergent is completely rinsed away, this should work.

Sirius Glass · Nov 23, 2015

Matt, you are right. I misread the posting.

CMoore · Nov 23, 2015

1. Are you guys saying you hang the film and then spray with Foto-Flo.?
Thanks

Sirius Glass · Nov 23, 2015

CMoore said:
1. Are you guys saying you hang the film and then spray with Foto-Flo.?
Thanks

No, put the film in a container other than a development tank. Pour in the PhotoFlo. Stir the PhotoFlo and then pour it off after 30 seconds to a minute.

Xmas · Nov 24, 2015

AgX said:
That would depend on the way the film is wound onto the take-up spool.
In case it is the same orientation as with the cassette, your tip would not make sense.

If you don't have a Barnack style camera with reverse curl you won't know what the problem in this thread is. 99% of 35mm cameras are Barnack style.

So leaving it in cassette for 48 hours film loads with no problems, otherwise you have play the theme from mission impossible.

I do use Kievs and Contax II yes but unless you so mark cassettes it is simpler to wait. We are not taking selfies?

twelvetone12 · Dec 11, 2015

So after using the reels the last few times I was very careful to scrub them with an toothbrush throughly and pass some graphite for a pencil, the film does not stick anymore! I feed a bit dumb for not thinking about it myself... Anyways thanks for all the tips!

Philippe-Georges · Dec 14, 2015

GRHazelton said:
...Strange, back in the day I had no trouble with SS reels, but I seem to have lost my Mojo.

SS reels, particularly the 35 mm ones, can bend when dropped or treated a little rough.
Check if the two flanges are still parallel and the distance between them is wide enough.

Patrick Robert James · Dec 14, 2015

I stopped using wetting agent years ago. Now I just wipe the back of the film with a paper towel while it is hanging. Brawny works well. And no I haven't had any scratches. Use a light touch. It also helps with dust since the dust has nothing to stick to, and the negs dry faster. It is a win/win/win for me. If you are anal you can use Kimwipes.

If you want to clean your plastic reels, use household bleach. It will get them squeaky clean without any scrubbing. Just soak them in the tank then rinse them well.

Another thing too I should mention to avoid buildup is to not pull the film out of the reel. Separate the reel then take the film out. If you pull the film out, gelatin accumulates on the reel.

Hope that helps you.

AgX · Dec 14, 2015

There are different meanings to "household bleach".

Furthermore they are not best choice to dissolve proteins, and that is what it is about with sticky reels.

Peltigera · Dec 14, 2015

If you are wanting to 'dissolve' proteins the best way is a soak in cold water with biological washing powder added - the enzymes concerned are Peptases.

Sent from my A1-840 using Tapatalk

bobwysiwyg · Dec 14, 2015

Try laundry detergent. Many modern detergents contain enzymes, some of which target proteins.

GRHazelton · Dec 15, 2015

bobwysiwyg said:
Try laundry detergent. Many modern detergents contain enzymes, some of which target proteins.

Or run them through the dishwasher. Works well for me....

bobwysiwyg · Dec 16, 2015

GRHazelton said:
Or run them through the dishwasher. Works well for me....

Yes, tried that also and it did seem to work well. However, my wife wasn't thrilled no matter how much I tried to explain, that is "dishwashers are for washing dishes." Also, I don't usually used heated dry when I do dishes, but my wife does. I was afraid I would forget to check the setting and figured heated dry was not good for the reels, etc. So now, I periodically soak them in a solution of clothes detergent and then rinse thoroughly. Once dry, I just tap the reels to insure the steel balls are moving freely.

Ronald Moravec · Dec 16, 2015

You can use a spray photofloow on hanging film. Art supply stores like Blick sell them. ok to use a plastic with rinse nozzle also.

It do not store diluted because mold grows, so mix a small amount.

GRHazelton · Dec 16, 2015

bobwysiwyg said:
Yes, tried that also and it did seem to work well. However, my wife wasn't thrilled no matter how much I tried to explain, that is "dishwashers are for washing dishes." Also, I don't usually used heated dry when I do dishes, but my wife does. I was afraid I would forget to check the setting and figured heated dry was not good for the reels, etc. So now, I periodically soak them in a solution of clothes detergent and then rinse thoroughly. Once dry, I just tap the reels to insure the steel balls are moving freely.

Heh, heh... Fortunately my Better Half (and truly she is!) is amenable to photographic excesses. We use the air dry on the dishwasher. BTW... I've heard tales, probably apocryphal, about car collectors who ran engine parts through the dishwasher. Note...I am neither encouraging nor approving this practice. Do so at your own risk.

rpavich · Dec 18, 2015

Quoting Richard:
I always use Patterson reels.I have reels from the original system 4 tanks I never scrub them or put them in a dishwasher or any of the other things I read on here or other forums, I use wetting agent, that is the last rinse, I then let the reels dry and put them away until the next film, I have not had a film stick in a reel since I have been using them,I have said this before and will no doubt say this again, take a pencil, run the lead around the groves every 3 or 4 films, this dry greases them with the graphite from the lead, the film, 120 or 35mm, slip in like a hot knife though butter, and no effect on the chemistry, and it works every time
----

I guess this is what I'll have to try...I've tried everything else and still get the stickies.

pdeeh · Dec 18, 2015

I have to say, the idea of having particles of graphite washing about in a tank with a swollen spongy film emulsion ready and willing to collect them seems quite absurd to me.

R.Gould · Dec 18, 2015

pdeeh said:
I have to say, the idea of having particles of graphite washing about in a tank with a swollen spongy film emulsion ready and willing to collect them seems quite absurd to me.

I don't get particles of graphite, just the effect of dry graphite on the inside of the reels, I have been doing this for as long as I have been using plastic reels, I was taught this trick by a relative, a keen photographer, sadly no longer here, and I don't get any problems. I just run the pencil around, and in the film slips, I would guess that as well as the ''dry grease'' using a sharp pencil will also have the effect of somehow cleaning the groves, I do this every 3 or 4 uses of my reels, I am stillwaiting to get any film stuck, and if I forget and get a slightly sticky reel (It happens if I get forgetful, happens when you get old) then a shard tap of the edge of the reel on the workbench frees the whole thing and in it goes, average time 30 secs to 1 min and film(s) are loaded, I have never scrubbed, washed, put a reel on the dishwasher, just dried the reel after the final WA rinse, on the bench, it works for me,
Richard

pdeeh · Dec 18, 2015

CMoore · Jul 7, 2016

I have had the film load about 80% of the way, and then feel like it hit a brick wall.
What i have been doing since (last 6 months) is i load a roll of dead film first. I figure if there is any type of Debris/Sticky/Obstruction/Etc...the old film will mow it down.
I have not had a problem since i started doing this, but the length of time and number of times has probably not been enough to be definitive, but.....so far it has worked fine.
I also go a bit slower and only twist one of the reels, leaving the other side stationary.....my left hand hold the left reel steady and my right hand turns the right side reel.

Svenedin · Jul 7, 2016

I think when I do have trouble it is a slightly damp reel that is usually to blame. I find 120 easier than 35mm because it much shorter. Someone mentioned the reels with a larger loading platform (Kaiser or AP type). I have those as well but I am not sure they are better. Yes they may be easier to load but if they do jam (and they do) then it is far more difficult to get the film back out without damage than it is on a Paterson reel. With the Kaiser type you cannot arch the film to gently remove it, you have to separate the reel. If the film is stuck with part through the "gate" it can be permanently marked when separating the reel and such marks show on prints.

With 35mm it can help to cut off the corners after cutting off the leader and carefully checking that cutting off the leader has not left half a sprocket hole which tends to jam. With 120 it can be easier to take the film entirely off the backing paper, cut off the tape and load from what was the taped end.

I have investigated films that have persistently jammed on me. Sometimes I find a tiny area of damage and whether I have caused that or not I don't know (but I probably have, possibly in the camera).

In an extreme situation and rather than forcing the film or losing one's temper, the film can be rolled up and put in the tank without a reel so that it is light tight and the frustrated person can take 10 minutes to have a cup of tea and return for another attempt. If it still fails, try another reel. Final straw, feel along the entire film for any damage on the edges. If damage is found cut that area out and then load the 2 pieces of film on different reels (or the same one if you are confident of avoiding overlap). A frame is lost this way but if it was damaged anyway that's no great loss and the whole film is not ruined.

chuck94022 · Jul 7, 2016

No one has mentioned this age old solution: take a clothes pin and clip it on your right ear before loading the film. You have to do this in addition to all the above advice.

It may not work, but you'll be comforted in knowing that you have tried absolutely everything this forum presented.

mgb74 · Jul 8, 2016

GRHazelton said:
Heh, heh... Fortunately my Better Half (and truly she is!) is amenable to photographic excesses. We use the air dry on the dishwasher. BTW... I've heard tales, probably apocryphal, about car collectors who ran engine parts through the dishwasher. Note...I am neither encouraging nor approving this practice. Do so at your own risk.

But what they saved by not buying a proper parts washer they spent (and more) on alimony.

I use OxyClean for cleaning homebrewing equipment. I'll have to give that a try on some dirty reels.

darkroommike · Jul 8, 2016

The best thing you can do it load from the end with the retaining tape, do not remove the tape when getting ready to load it makes a great stiffener and it's waterproof so it won't come off during processing.
The second thing you do is cut a little 45 degree "dogear" on each side of the leading end of the film.
I've never done any special cleaning but do put my reels back in the film washer for a couple of minutes before putting my toys away.
I use, or have used, Patterson (and the various clones, and much prefer the real Paterson reels), Unicolor, Ansco, and all kinds of stainless. Hewes, Kindermann, and Nikor seem to be the best although the "brand X" ss work until dropped, in 45 years I've only had one bad ss 120 reel, bad out of the box too narrow between the flanges on one side, not bent just short.

Sticky Paterson reels?

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