Sticky Paterson reels?

twelvetone12 · Nov 22, 2015

Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

summicron1 · Nov 22, 2015

they should have a permanent thread on this problem.

Paterson-type plastic reels that push the film in by that twisty mechanism must be absolutely clean and absolutely dry to work properly, and even then can get hard towards the end if the film has a lot of strong curl in it. The more film you push in, the more friction you are pushing against to get the film to slide through 5-feet of track (for a 36-shot roll). A tiny little damp spot will, in that circumstance, act like glue.

the only permanent solution is to learn how to use stainless steel reels -- some folks claim they give them trouble, but in 40-plus years mine never have. They're like riding a bicycle -- once you learn they work, and they can be used damp.

John Koehrer · Nov 22, 2015

Was it thoroughly dried? Not just wiped out with a towel.

Jim Noel · Nov 22, 2015

The alternate is to load underwater. If everything is wet binding is reduced to a minimum. I frequently had to use this with students at the college.

GRHazelton · Nov 22, 2015

I periodically run my Paterson reels through the dishwasher. So far, so good....

Strange, back in the day I had no trouble with SS reels, but I seem to have lost my Mojo.

Sirius Glass · Nov 22, 2015

Run in a dishwasher or scrub with a toothbrush using hot water. Dry thoroughly and run a pencil lead in the grooves. Search for other threads on this subject.

This thread should be a sticky.

twelvetone12 · Nov 22, 2015

Thanks Guys! The reels were absolutely clean and dry, but it seems not enough.
I will try the toothbrush + pencil. And then I will get some stainless reels...

StephenT · Nov 22, 2015

Don't put the wetting agent in the tank with the reel. Get a squirt bottle, put the wetting agent, whichever one you like, I also use Ilford, in the bottle. After the film wash, remove the film from the reel, gently fold it over in your fingers so the film is not touching, and squirt the wetting agent all over the film, front and back. It is, of course, best to hold it over your darkroom sink.

You need to thoroughly clean your reels before using them again. Using the above method, you should not have any further trouble. Hopefully! Unless you try to load 120 on the standard Paterson reels. For that, get the new aftermarket reels with the MUCH bigger starting platform.

GRHazelton · Nov 22, 2015

Ah, yes! 120 on Paterson reels.... Madness awaits! Using the old style reels I've had better success in separating the film from the backing paper, and loading the end with the remnants of the tape on the film. I guess that the tape stiffens the film just enough to help a little.

How are Hewes 120 reels? I have a basic SS 120 reel - I've been afraid to try it.

Sirius Glass · Nov 22, 2015

StephenT said:
Don't put the wetting agent in the tank with the reel. Get a squirt bottle, put the wetting agent, whichever one you like, I also use Ilford, in the bottle. After the film wash, remove the film from the reel, gently fold it over in your fingers so the film is not touching, and squirt the wetting agent all over the film, front and back. It is, of course, best to hold it over your darkroom sink.

You need to thoroughly clean your reels before using them again. Using the above method, you should not have any further trouble. Hopefully! Unless you try to load 120 on the standard Paterson reels. For that, get the new aftermarket reels with the MUCH bigger starting platform.

Yes, always take film off the reels and out of the tank before using a wetting agent such as PhotoFlo.

StephenT · Nov 22, 2015

I hear Hewes are great - but I don't have any. My stainless reels are of unknown make - well, I bought them new 40 years ago, but don't have a clue who made them anymore! Stainless work great, once you get the end of the film securely in the inner winding and the keeper springy thingy. Slight curl, and wind the reel as it sits on the counter.

However, stainless don't work in the Paterson tanks, which I, personally, like just fine. The tops might leak a bit more than a tight fitting stainless, but not that bad and I wear nitrile gloves anyway.

ColColt · Nov 22, 2015

Don't put the wetting agent in the tank with the reel.

Why? I've mixed Photoflo and water, dumped in the tank after the final wash and to date there's been no problems.

Sirius Glass · Nov 22, 2015

ColColt said:
Why? I've mixed Photoflo and water, dumped in the tank after the final wash and to date there's been no problems.

Jobo strongly recommends not putting wetting agents in their tanks and on the reels. Tinsley in his books on the Jobo processors echos the same thing. A number of APUGgers over the years have stated the they personally had problems with plastic reels that had been immersed in wetting agents.

ColColt · Nov 22, 2015

I've used Paterson tanks and reels since 1978 and can't recall any particular problem with theirs. In fact, I still have that old tank and reels.

MattKing · Nov 22, 2015

twelvetone12 said:
Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

What is the humidity where you are?

Are you trying to load in a changing bag?

Humidity = sticky.

zanxion72 · Nov 23, 2015

Heat up the reels with a hair drier just before loading. Some forum member had suggested this. I do it all the time and I no longer have a hard time loading the film on these reels. It goes so smoothly that you can even push the film halfway holding it by its edges.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 23, 2015

twelvetone12 said:
Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams.
I thought it was my old reel defective so I got a new one, but after a couple films working perfectly it started doing the same! I tried various ways of moving it and pushing the film but it always sticks.
My next idea was insufficient rinsing (I use Ilfotol as a last bath) so I started rising them *throughly* but the film still jams.
Does anyone have any idea? Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

film and reels must be clean and bone dry!

twelvetone12 · Nov 23, 2015

My house is pretty much dry, but yes I use a changing bag! I would have not thought that the moisture from my hands inside could be relevant, through! I am going to try also not using the wetting agent directly on the reels (after cleaning them very well). Also heating them seems a good idea - I did not try because I feared the plastic would deform.

Ian Grant · Nov 23, 2015

I've been using Paterson tanks since the 1960's I always put my wetting agent in the tank but I wash them well afterwards with warm water. Every few months they get a thorough clean usually these days in biological washing powder.

It's not the wetting agent itself that's the problem rather a slow build up of gelatin when the wet films are removed from the reels, this retains wetting agent after a time.

Keep your reels clean and they are easy to load, I'm still using early System 4 reels without problems.

Ian

Xmas · Nov 23, 2015

The key thing to do is leave the film in the cassette for at least 48 hours after rewinding.

I do all the transgressions in this post but don't have any problems with reels from 1961 as well as new ones.

The film memorises the reverse curl imposed in normal 35 mm cameras, some films have more memory than others.

R.Gould · Nov 23, 2015

I always use Patterson reels.I have reels from the original system 4 tanks I never scrub them or put them in a dishwasher or any of the other things I read on here or other forums, I use wetting agent, that is the last rinse, I then let the reels dry and put them away until the next film, I have not had a film stick in a reel since I have been using them,I have said this before and will no doubt say this again, take a pencil, run the lead around the groves every 3 or 4 films, this dry greases them with the graphite from the lead, the film, 120 or 35mm, slip in like a hot knife though butter, and no effect on the chemistry, and it works every time
Richard

Jeff Bradford · Nov 23, 2015

Wear long sleeves and nitrile surgical gloves while working in the changing bag. This keeps humidity down and prevents finger prints on the film. If the film gets even a tiny bit humid, it will stick to the reels. 120 sticks the most. 135 wasn't bad, but certain thiner/more-flexible films would bunch up if over-wound onto the reel.

After a disaster trying to load 120 film on a Patterson reel in a changing bag during a mid-summer thunder storm, I switched to stainless and haven't had a problem since. I still use the Patterson reels for 135, but afterwards I soak the tanks and reels in TSP solution and give it all a thorough scrubbing.

Luis-F-S · Nov 23, 2015

twelvetone12 said:
Hi!
I recently restarted doing B&W at home and i dug out my Paterson tank + reel. I noticed that after a few times I was using it the film seemed to "stick" after 3/4 of it were loaded. Basically it becomes more and more "hard" for the reel to push the film, and generally the sprocket derails from one of the two little spheres and the film jams. Or should I get another tank+reels altogether?
thanks!!

Why I use stainless tanks and reels......L

john_s · Nov 23, 2015

After unloading developed film I put the reels and other tank components in a basin with a strong but dilute detergent (not the "kind to your hands" sort of thing) then rinse and dry thoroughly. I don't have a problem usually. If I'm having trouble and get flustered and hot and bothered and start to sweat a bit (depends on the weather obviously) it gets worse.

I find it helps a lot to straighten the start part of the film and I clip the corners a bit to help ease the film into and around the reel.

AgX · Nov 23, 2015

Xmas said:
The key thing to do is leave the film in the cassette for at least 48 hours after rewinding.

That would depend on the way the film is wound onto the take-up spool.
In case it is the same orientation as with the cassette, your tip would not make sense.

Sticky Paterson reels?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency