steel reel question

bessa_L_R3a · Apr 10, 2008

Hi,

Can I use a leader retriever to slip out the leader in the light and load my steel reel in the light with a few inches of negative before hitting the changing bag? I just don't want to wrestle with the cheap clip.

And how do I know if my negative is winding correctly without doubling up on the tracks? That is my biggest fear compared to using plastic reels ..

Arvee · Apr 10, 2008

I would think that would work okay. Most cameras wind about 3-3.5" before exposing the first frame.

bessa_L_R3a · Apr 10, 2008

yeah!!! thanks ... and how do I avoid the double tracking? i'm terrified of developer not making contact with all surfaces.

Kevin Caulfield · Apr 10, 2008

Yeah, you have a few inches or so. You should be able to feel if it is winding correctly. If it isn't winding evenly you can feel that the back of the film is kinked slightly, not flat. It may be worth practising in day light and deliberately twisting it in the tracks to see and feel what incorrect winding looks and more importantly feels like.

bessa_L_R3a · Apr 10, 2008

anyone know where i can see you tube video or similar of winding 35mm on a steel reel? i couldn't find any on you tube

nickandre · Apr 10, 2008

No amount of youtube videos can save you. learn by experience. If you're rolling in a dark bag give in.

I started by not rolling the rolls into the canister all the way. I don't know that this helps you very much besides to confuse you as to which roll's you've shot (bad news bears).

I pray for your sake that you're rolling in a dark closet, it's 50000000000000 times easier. I open the canister, cut the tab off, clip it in (in the dark, duh), and roll. To roll you have to make sure it is completely lined up, going straight in. Practice with scrap film. The tension must be even (pulling the same on both sides). Feel with your pointer finger on the hand that's holding the reel. Listen for the film crunching sound that it makes if you're screwing up. Remember how much space a roll takes up so that if you feel that your 36 exposure roll is only taking up half the reel you know there's something wrong. Keep the tension as low as possible and curve the film towards the emulsion so it slides into the track. Besides that find your youtube video or ask someone to show you.

Christopher Walrath · Apr 10, 2008

As to the clips, if you have the cheap steel wire bent around clips, take a micro pair of needle nose and bend them a little further around to allow the film to feed into the clip a little further. As to whether it's winding on correctly or not, about every half turn slide the film back and forth a wee bit. You should have about a quarter inch slack and should be able to feel it very easily. If the film is tight and doesn't slide at all, then go back, fix it and then continue. And TAKE YOUR TIME. If you're like me, loading film in a minute is abso-stinking-lutely out of the question. I take my time, about three to five minutes, unless I nail it. Haven't yet.

Murray@uptowngallery · Apr 10, 2008

Someone was just telling me about loading two rolls back to back in one spool. That takes confidence, experience, maybe both.

Not sure why you'd want to...save time and a little chemistry?

fschifano · Apr 10, 2008

Sacrifice a cheap roll of film and practice, practice, practice. Before you know it, you'll be able to do it from scratch in the dark. If that doesn't work, consider a high quality reel like Hewes. These are almost foolproof because they are built to exacting standards and quality control. They are more expensive, but worth every penny.

nickandre · Apr 10, 2008

Christopher Walrath said:
As to the clips, if you have the cheap steel wire bent around clips, take a micro pair of needle nose and bend them a little further around to allow the film to feed into the clip a little further. As to whether it's winding on correctly or not, about every half turn slide the film back and forth a wee bit. You should have about a quarter inch slack and should be able to feel it very easily. If the film is tight and doesn't slide at all, then go back, fix it and then continue. And TAKE YOUR TIME. If you're like me, loading film in a minute is abso-stinking-lutely out of the question. I take my time, about three to five minutes, unless I nail it. Haven't yet.

I rolled 24 exposure rolls in 60 seconds each. Around 40 of them in my photo class. No stickies. Just keep it lined up with even pressure. That doesn't work in a dark bag mind you. After completing the photo class with no stickies I got home and rolled a color roll in an 11x17 dark bag and it was one giant sticky.

Rolling back to back? you'd need 12 exposure rolls to fit on a 36 unless you're using the ilford 72 frame ones. The advantage being you can now fit 16 rolls of film in an 8 roll can.

k_jupiter · Apr 10, 2008

tiberiustibz said:
I
Rolling back to back? you'd need 12 exposure rolls to fit on a 36 unless you're using the ilford 72 frame ones. The advantage being you can now fit 16 rolls of film in an 8 roll can.

I don't think you understand the concept.
The films roll into the same spiral, just back to back.

Why bother?

tim in san jose

Pinholemaster · Apr 10, 2008

Practice on a dummy roll over and over again.

There should be no tension on the film once loaded. The roll should end about where the reel ends, and the film should feel like it is loosely fitting on the reel.

removed account4 · Apr 10, 2008

when the cut end of the film is in the clip feel the edges with your fingers
( with your dummy roll and the lights you can see this how the film looks
when it is clipped straight vs. crooked ) it is easy to notice when the film
isn't clipped straight. when you hold the film tight, and slightly curved
it will easily slide on the reel as it is supposed to, you can push the film
back/ towards the center, and feel it move back and forth freely, you haven't made
any mistakes. once you practice a few times, and see what you are doing
right / wrong it is easy to understand how to do it. i wouldn't bother leaving the
tongue out of your film spool. it isn't worth the trouble and is much easier to
pop the top off of the cartridge pull the film out, trim the end off and feed it into
the reel ...

videos, and threads ( here ) aren't going to help you as much
as sacrificing a roll of film and just doing it ...

good luck!

john

Mike Richards · Apr 11, 2008

Very important: Don't squeeze the film as you're loading. Just hold the edges loosely and guide the film onto the reel.

timeUnit · Apr 11, 2008

Loading steel reels is 100 times easier than plastic, IMO. The 120-format rolls can be a bit of a challenge. That said, I roll both 120-film and 135-film back to back on Hewes steel reels. I've had a few mess-ups with 120-film, but never with 135-film.

Practice in the light. I a few tries you'll be the master.

CBG · Apr 11, 2008

fschifano said:
Sacrifice a cheap roll of film and practice, practice, practice. Before you know it, you'll be able to do it from scratch in the dark. If that doesn't work, consider a high quality reel like Hewes. These are almost foolproof because they are built to exacting standards and quality control. They are more expensive, but worth every penny.

The above is the best advise you'll ever get. Waste one roll to practice. Use it till you could load film in a shoebox. Practice in the light first, then in the light with your eyes closed, and only then in a changing bag.

Get the feel of it down cold before you start to adapt your skill to working a changing bag. There's a "feel" to loading that you'll never forget.

I'm one more who says stainless is best. You're not dependant upon film slithering all the way friction free.

k_jupiter said:
roll into the same spiral, just back to back. Why bother?

Back to back is just an old time saving "trick". Sometimes the time saved is vital. I'm not sure I'd want to load back to back in a changing bag without sacrificing two rolls and a bit of practice....

Best,

C

Paul Verizzo · Apr 11, 2008

Or, just use a high quality plastic system.

In terms of ease of use, SS reels make zero sense. I know there are many who say that plastic doesn't work for them, but that's like saying it's harder to use an automatic transmission than a stick shift. I chose the latter for my Jeep, but that doesn't mean I would claim it to be easier. The only failure ever possible with a plastic ratchet reel system is easily avoided: if it stops going in easily, something is wrong. A reel with a bit of moisture can do that. But you know this before it ever goes into the soup, unlike a SS reel where you discover the error after fixing.

SS reels are expensive and are easily bent. (Oops!) 120 film is hard to do, I even have a 120 film loader device. Even such a thing as the brand of film and its backing can change the degree of diffiulty.

I keep my SS reels and tanks to look at. They look very professional and are very pretty.

I use my Yankee reel and tank for the "reel" world.

CBG · Apr 11, 2008

Paul Verizzo said:
In terms of ease of use, SS reels make zero sense. I know there are many who say that plastic doesn't work for them, but that's like saying it's harder to use an automatic transmission than a stick shift. I chose the latter for my Jeep, but that doesn't mean I would claim it to be easier. The only failure ever possible with a plastic ratchet reel system is easily avoided: if it stops going in easily, something is wrong. A reel with a bit of moisture can do that. But you know this before it ever goes into the soup, unlike a SS reel where you discover the error after fixing.

SS reels are expensive and are easily bent. (Oops!) 120 film is hard to do, I even have a 120 film loader device. Even such a thing as the brand of film and its backing can change the degree of diffiulty.

I keep my SS reels and tanks to look at. They look very professional and are very pretty.

I use my Yankee reel and tank for the "reel" world.

I guess the plastic reels make sense for some, but metal reels are practically free nowadays, easy not to bend with minimal care and easy to use for most folks. I'm a terminal clutz and used the old reels without clips or hooks with no trouble and did back to back etc with little fuss.

If you're dropping and bending reels, you're going to smash the plastic reels sometime.

C

Konical · Apr 11, 2008

"120 film is hard to do, I even have a 120 film loader device. Even such a thing as the brand of film and its backing can change the degree of diffiulty."

Good Morning,

Agree and disagree. In my opinion, loading 120 film onto a SS reel is generally the dead simplest darkroom procedure going (220 is another story). I do agree, however, that some films are somewhat easier to load than others. I've never had trouble with Kodak or Ilford, but the very flexible, thin-base Foma 200 does require a bit more care. The most important thing is to use reels with a positive locking mechanism in the center, such as the Kinderman-type puncturing pin instead of the Nikor-type springy-thingy.

Konical

ntenny · Apr 11, 2008

Paul Verizzo said:
120 film is hard to do, I even have a 120 film loader device. Even such a thing as the brand of film and its backing can change the degree of diffiulty.

I agree with the second sentence, but the first one astonishes me. Maybe I've just been lucky in my choice of 120 reels, or something, but based on my own experience I can't imagine finding it harder to load than 35mm. The space between "tracks" of the reel is so generous that it's hard to get misaligned, and if it does happen, I can feel it immediately.

What do you find goes wrong? The film "derails" and you get two layers stuck together?

-NT

Nigel · Apr 11, 2008

timeUnit said:
Loading steel reels is 100 times easier than plastic, IMO. The 120-format rolls can be a bit of a challenge. That said, I roll both 120-film and 135-film back to back on Hewes steel reels. I've had a few mess-ups with 120-film, but never with 135-film.

Practice in the light. I a few tries you'll be the master.

I find the exact opposite. 120 is a walk in the park but 35mm is tougher. I attribute it to length. 120 is short so being a degree or two off square translates to a couple of millimeters by the end of the film. With 35mm being more than a meter long, a degree or two off square is a long way off at the end of the film.

In my experience, loading metal reels is easy if you get the film square to the reel, otherwise it is difficult.

Plastic reels are relatively easy to feed correctly, but take much longer to load.

In my mind, the reel debate is a matter of preference. Slow and sure vs. fast but requiring some skill/practice.

PhotoJim · Apr 11, 2008

I wouldn't even say that plastic reels are slow to load. I've loaded film onto plastic reels thousands of times. I'm very fast at it.

Conversely, I am much slower at loading metal reels. Perhaps it's because I have only done it a few times, but I find that it takes a lot of fussing to get the film started. Once started I'm usually good. I don't find it so much more difficult that it's a big deal, but I do find it to be more difficult.

I prefer plastic reels and find that they are much easier to learn how to use, but metal reels have their place. I use metal occasionally primarily because if I'm doing a lot of film and I don't have any dry plastic reels, I still have a few metal reels I can use. I don't disdain so much that I won't use them, but I use them as my last choice, generally.

Anscojohn · Apr 11, 2008

bessa_L_R3a said:
yeah!!! thanks ... and how do I avoid the double tracking? i'm terrified of developer not making contact with all surfaces.

******
Once again, you should practice with a junk roll with your eyes closed. You will feel the film double loading if you handle it correctly. It really is a matter of "feel." There are little devices available which go go into the core of the reel, and then you slip the film into a kind of curved metal sleeve to give your film the correct "bowing" of the film. I always found them more trouble than they are worth. Someone might have an extra one they would send you. My gut tells me that with the film still in the cannister, you won't get too much of the slight bowing needed. Sometimes, also, you can hear the film make a slight "clicking" sound if it double loads.
Trust us, if you practice enough with junk film, and you get the "hang' of it, it will be a no brainer. You can then begin to give knowing, smirking smug looks to those people who still use plastic because "it's im--poss--ible to load ss reels." Stick with the practice. And like whistling, it will come to you and you shall be ok with loading them. We've all been there.

John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

steel reel question

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