Steamed

Chuck_P · Dec 3, 2008

I'm sure this is not new to some but it is to me. I was reading in John Sexton's news letter that a technique to bring a higher gloss to the print surface is to steam the surface of the print-----he uses a simple tea kettle and steams the surface of some of his prints when the particular batch of paper may not be as glossy as it should, apparently it is a technique that is very old. He even indicates that it can increase D-Max of the print. He recommends about 2 applications of about 15 seconds each about one minute apart from each application. I think I did 3 applications.

I decided to try this with some work prints of Oriental VC FBII glossy paper because I had always felt that it did not have a gloss that was as glossy as Ilford's MGIV FB. I must say that it works extremely well, I mean those prints just shined-----pretty neat. They will want to curl so he mentioned that you can steam the other side to offset it. I put them between some books to help flatten them out again.

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

This technique also works well with Agfa fibre based papers and Forte Polywarmtone.

Ian

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 3, 2008

Dummie question here: this steaming is done when the print is finished, right?

Leon · Dec 3, 2008

it also works well to remove any "dulling" of the gloss finish that occurs when using retouching dyes.

eclarke · Dec 3, 2008

CPorter said:
I'm sure this is not new to some but it is to me. I was reading in John Sexton's news letter that a technique to bring a higher gloss to the print surface is to steam the surface of the print-----he uses a simple tea kettle and steams the surface of some of his prints when the particular batch of paper may not be as glossy as it should, apparently it is a technique that is very old. He even indicates that it can increase D-Max of the print. He recommends about 2 applications of about 15 seconds each about one minute apart from each application. I think I did 3 applications.

I decided to try this with some work prints of Oriental VC FBII glossy paper because I had always felt that it did not have a gloss that was as glossy as Ilford's MGIV FB. I must say that it works extremely well, I mean those prints just shined-----pretty neat. They will want to curl so he mentioned that you can steam the other side to offset it. I put them between some books to help flatten them out again.

Sounds easy to try! I just might have a couple prints laying around in the darkroom to test....Evan Clarke

Kino · Dec 3, 2008

Is this a slight re-flowing of the emulsion?

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

Kino said:
Is this a slight re-flowing of the emulsion?

No, it's just restoring a bit of life lost during air drying, I used to dry prints with a old rotary glazer they had the same semi gloss that steaming restores.

And yes Rich, it's done to a finished dried print.

Ian

George Collier · Dec 3, 2008

Sounds like it might be worth getting a cheap clothing steamer, they come on a stand. If you do both sides, does the print lie flatter? In other words, do the fibers become "relaxed"? With or without flattening?

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

A better method is ferrotyping of the print. This only works for FB paper.

The resultant FB print is also totally flat!

PE

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
A better method is ferrotyping of the print. This only works for FB paper.

The resultant FB print is also totally flat!

PE

Ferrotyping is quite different, it produces a high gloss finish but it's gone out of fashion over the last few years. Steaming produces just a touch of a sheen which looks far more natural as you still have the texture of the FB base,.

Ian

Kirk Keyes · Dec 3, 2008

I love a good ferrotyped print. I miss them. I don't miss a dirty ferrotype drum.

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

I've been thinking about this one for a while.

I would have to say that using this method on any type of "glossy" surface print (FB or RC) would have a small but real chance of ruining the surface by overheating and causing the gelatin to become kind of translucent. I have actually seen this take place and it takes on a frosted look IIRC. It has been years since I have seen anyone do this.

So, if you are determined to do this, practice and use caution.

PE

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

You need to see it Ron, it's the opposite. A bit of steam just restores the natural gloss the paper's designed to have.

Ian

David Brown · Dec 3, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
It has been years since I have seen anyone do this.

So, if you are determined to do this, practice and use caution.

It's been years since I've seen a lot of things that I know people still do.

I'm determined to try this - maybe tonight! I'll never stick a print to a ferrotype plate again. It HAS been years (decades) since I've done that.

Martin Aislabie · Dec 3, 2008

Has anyone tried a Steam Iron on a FB Print ?

Martin

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

Ian Grant said:
You need to see it Ron, it's the opposite. A bit of steam just restores the natural gloss the paper's designed to have.

Ian

It may depend on the paper hardness Ian. IDK. As I said, I have not seen this done for years and I do remember some bad or marginal results. Maybe they heated it too hot. I won't knock it until I try it, I'll just urge caution until you are sure it does what you want. I would hate to see someone use a valued print for the first try and ruin it.

PE

Chuck_P · Dec 3, 2008

I just got home from work and went to look at these prints that I steamed last night to see how they flattened out again----they're the same as before steaming. I'm amazed at the difference, significant to say the least as far as I can tell. Here's the link to his newsletter.

http://www.johnsexton.com/sextonnewsletter.html#anchor07

Bigpaul · Dec 3, 2008

I have tried steaming a few times in the past, and must admit that I've noticed little long-term change in the prints; on balance, I decided that the increased problems of curl and resulting flattening outweighed any perceived improvements. I think I only tried it with Ilford Galerie and various Foma papers, so it could be that other papers will respond more? I still ferrotype nearly all of my prints on an ancient RR Beard heated drum machine, as I'm a sucker for the deep shine that only ferrotyped FB can give. I do agree that the drum is a real pain to keep clean, though!

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

There are two conversations going on here. One appears to be on steaming to increase gloss and the other appears to be on steaming to flatten FB prnts. Some people are using steaming for both purposes. Also, no one seems to be addresing which side they steam. This does make a difference. Am I right or am I going crazy?

Flattening by steaming has been well documented for years, but the recommendations for that that I have read refer to steaming from the back.

Steaming the front may or may not change the gloss, but I have seen steaming from either side do 2 things....

1. Flatten the print!
2. Perhaps worsen the gloss, but this may be heat and technique related. It may only happen to ferrotyped glossy prints for that matter.

I have seen prints steamed from the back become very flat, but lost gloss on the front, so it may be an effect of the side that is steamed. I have seen "frosted steam spots" on the front of prints that were improperly steamed. They were still buckled as well.

Whatever. Lets make sure we address the OP correctly as well as the other possible uses of steaming with knowledge that there are two lines of thought here and many ways of applying it!

PE

Chuck_P · Dec 3, 2008

The below quote by Sexton is the only reference made to steaming the back side of the print, I don't believe it has any more meaning that what is seen here. A simple thing to counteract the prints tendency to curl "vigourously" toward the emulsion side of the print while you are trying to steam it. In fact, this is what I had to do a couple of times myself.

John Sexton:
"Generally, I make two separate applications of steam over the tea kettle a minute or so apart to help ensure the entire print surface is evenly covered with steam. Normally, I steam prints prior to dry mounting. If this is the case, you will notice that the print will curl vigorously toward the emulsion side during the steaming process, and while drying. Turning the print over and giving a brief application of steam to the base side of the print will minimize this tendency toward curling."

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

CPorter said:
I'm sure this is not new to some but it is to me. I was reading in John Sexton's news letter that a technique to bring a higher gloss to the print surface is to steam the surface of the print-----he uses a simple tea kettle and steams the surface of some of his prints when the particular batch of paper may not be as glossy as it should, apparently it is a technique that is very old. He even indicates that it can increase D-Max of the print. He recommends about 2 applications of about 15 seconds each about one minute apart from each application. I think I did 3 applications.

I decided to try this with some work prints of Oriental VC FBII glossy paper because I had always felt that it did not have a gloss that was as glossy as Ilford's MGIV FB. I must say that it works extremely well, I mean those prints just shined-----pretty neat. They will want to curl so he mentioned that you can steam the other side to offset it. I put them between some books to help flatten them out again.

Here is the OP, which mentions nothing about curl, only gloss. Also, Ian mentions gloss as did some earlier posts.

I think everyone is now more confused! I am.

PE

Chuck_P · Dec 3, 2008

CPorter said:
They will want to curl so he mentioned that you can steam the other side to offset it. I put them between some books to help flatten them out again.

Here's the OP where I mention that they (the prints) will want to curl and "he" (Sexton) says that you can steam the back side to counteract it.
What's the confusion?

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2008

CPorter said:
.....a technique to bring a higher gloss to the print surface is to steam the surface of the print-----he uses a simple tea kettle and steams the surface of some of his prints when the particular batch of paper may not be as glossy as it should.....

The majority of the OP was concerning gloss. This confused both me and others who responded.

Oh well, perhaps I should give up.

PE

Ray Rogers · Dec 3, 2008

Not at all.

Your points are well made.

I think it [it being adding gloss by steaming] may depend on the exact surface... if I recall, while it is an accepted technique in hand coloring/retouching, I think it may not work with just any surface... I do not know the details myself, but on a small localized area, it worked very well to blend the retouched area in with the rest of the picture, gloss wise.

Come to think of it, this was to restore, not create, the original gloss of the treated area...

Treating the whole picture would certainly invite curling, depending on the exact conditions, and treating the back could compensate for front curl, so on and so forth...

No, I do not think you are confused. You just think you are confused. There is a difference!

davekarp · Dec 5, 2008

Steaming the image side of the print works very well. It creates a beautiful finish on the air dried glossy fiber print (but not like ferrotyping). I have been doing it since attending a J. Sexton workshop about 10 years ago. I have even done it with prints that have been drymounted. You just have to be careful not to undo the mount!

Steamed

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