Stealing their souls

runswithsizzers · Jun 3, 2022

KerrKid said:
[...] I'm not an aggressive or pushy person so I can't imagine shoving a camera in someone's face. Maybe that's why I'm more comfortable taking pictures of things rather than people, but I'd like to get better at taking photos of people. I'm more interested in approaching people and saying the right things to put them at ease and allowing me to create a good photograph. [...]

I used the phrase "shoving a camera in someone's face" somewhat facetiously. It is worth mentioning that different people have different ideas about how much personal space they need. What seems like a safe distance to the photographer may feel threatening to the subject. To me, "in your face photography" is antisocial behaviour, and I think those photographers who are triggering anxiety and anger in their subjects by invading the subject's personal space should be shunned.

I am relieved to hear you are asking permission before photographing people. From your thread title, I thought you might be getting pushback from people who resented being photographed without first being asked for permission.

You say you are "interested in approaching people and saying the right things to put them at ease," which is good. But in your opening post, you seem to be blaming your subjects for being too sensitive, and even mocking them. Maybe your intended subjects are picking up on your lack of empathy / respect when you approach them?

If you have a university or community college nearby, you might want to see if they offer a course in interpersonal communication. There are some basic rules that can make a real difference when you are trying to put people at ease.

logan2z · Jun 3, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
I never had a dog get angry when I took its picture.

I like dogs… They’re sympathetic. They’re nice. They don’t ask for prints.

-- Elliot Erwitt

wiltw · Jun 3, 2022

My own opinion is that people used to be less sensitive to their photo being taken 50 years ago than now. In the current times, everyone has a camera (in their phone) and photographs can be made with bad intentions in mind...monitoring activity at a location over a period of time, to 'case the joint' and or to watch and record people leaving at certain schedules so the place can later be robbed. Folks can be sensitive merely in someone photographing the front of their home, even innocently...."why are they photographing my home?!'. Society is now so filled with illicit actions and intentions, everyone has their guard up!
It is a sad commentary that one has to be on guard that their car parked in front is not broken into so it can be rifled for its contents, and that an expensive to replace catalytic convertor can be stolen in 60 seconds. One used to be able to shoot school sports without suspicion; now you need advanced permission of the school and coaches, or you risk being classified as a pervert or child thief.

guangong · Jun 3, 2022

oh yes, lots of changes. In 1960s, not unusual to see people on 7th Ave line going to opera, men in full dress and women in gowns. There was grime but now raw garbage. My wife and I saw once saw somebody sitting across from us picking fleas and cracking them with his teeth.
My subway nature study. Interesting how rats can detect oncoming train and take refuge.

guangong · Jun 3, 2022

I have always felt a great deal of sympathy for Ethan’s parents, what they did was absolutely proper. Nothing worse than tragedy striking a child. Our daughter would travel by PATH to grade school in NYC. Fortunately, the worse thing that happened to her was on the train being kicked by a man wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase. We used it as a learning experience, that if she didn’t study she would have to work wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase (especially during the summer).

KerrKid · Jun 3, 2022

runswithsizzers said:
I used the phrase "shoving a camera in someone's face" somewhat facetiously. It is worth mentioning that different people have different ideas about how much personal space they need. What seems like a safe distance to the photographer may feel threatening to the subject. To me, "in your face photography" is antisocial behaviour, and I think those photographers who are triggering anxiety and anger in their subjects by invading the subject's personal space should be shunned.

I am relieved to hear you are asking permission before photographing people. From your thread title, I thought you might be getting pushback from people who resented being photographed without first being asked for permission.

You say you are "interested in approaching people and saying the right things to put them at ease," which is good. But in your opening post, you seem to be blaming your subjects for being too sensitive, and even mocking them. Maybe your intended subjects are picking up on your lack of empathy / respect when you approach them?

If you have a university or community college nearby, you might want to see if they offer a course in interpersonal communication. There are some basic rules that can make a real difference when you are trying to put people at ease.

I have no subjects. I haven't started photographing people, yet. Just seeking discourse on the psychology of photography and why people (including me) react the way we do to it. Using a bit of exaggeration. But I think most folks could break the code on that. .

I've been in sales most of my life. Many years in advertising. I'm the guy that people will tell their life story to on an elevator. So, I think my interpersonal skills are very good in most areas. Of course, I don't ever consider myself done learning which is why I hang out here.

Some of you folks have a lot of experience as photojournalists, wedding photographers, and "street" photographers and I enjoy hearing your thoughts prior to my venturing out on my blogging adventure.

KerrKid · Jun 3, 2022

Moose22 said:
I do this often. I ask to take a portrait and then take a picture of the dog.

But as often as not, the dog owner will try to help. Get the dogs attention or often pose with the dog. I kind of wish they didn't, as my favorite dog (and children) shots are when the owner is ignoring me but the dog or child is staring. It is a personal things, dogs love me and even some non-social dogs will want to visit with me, surprising their owners. So the dog staring while the rest of the world ignores me is, literally, my vision of the world.

Same is true of cats, though people don't take their cats for a walk. Babies and Toddlers are always staring. Difference there is that I actually like dogs, but I take the same sorts of photos of each:

Even for regular street photos, dog people are happier when I'm taking pics, even if I don't ask explicitly. They just seem happy someone else thinks their pet is adorable for the most part.

Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.

MattKing · Jun 3, 2022

KerrKid said:
I haven't started photographing people, yet.

If you approach it with a generous outlook, some will disappoint you, but many will give you joy.

VinceInMT · Jun 3, 2022

wiltw said:
Folks can be sensitive merely in someone photographing the front of their home, even innocently...."why are they photographing my home?!'.

A friend is a professional photographer and one of his clients is a real estate company. One time they called and needed exterior photos of a new listing and asked if he could get it right away. He drove out there to what passes as “upscale” in our part of the world and from the sidewalk, got a couple of shots. He drives back to the studio to a ringing phone and it’s the sheriff wanting to know what he was doing photographing the house.

A year or so ago I was driving around looking for subjects for a class assignment on the theme of “repetition.” I spied an apartment building where on the backside I could see that each unit had a window air conditioner hanging out of it. Perfect, just what I needed. I didn’t even get out of my car and got the shot, sitting in the drivers seat while stopped on the street. As I was putting camera down, a car pulls out of the building’s parking lot and goes nose to nose with my car. The guy starts screaming that this is private property and I am not allowed to take photos. I explained that I was on public property and that the eye, and the camera, cannot trespass. He got out his phone and said he was calling the cops to have me arrested. He did and while he was busy talking to them I just backed up and left. I assume that the police told him I was breaking not law.

Not long after that I was shooting another assignment, motion and blur, and walked up to the end of my street to shoot cars driving by on their way to work. I’d take a photo and record the exposure info in my notebook. Then take another photo. When writing, I noticed a police car goes by. He goes around the block and comes up and I get an old fashioned roust. What am I doing? When I told him he asked what I was using to take the photos and I pointed to my film camera. He gives me the stink eye and wants to know what I am really doing. I said it was a class assignement and that I was a university art student. He doubted that, probably because I was well into my 60s, and I handed him the class assignment sheet from my notebook. He glanced at it and kept looking at the camera, a Minolta SRT with a Luna Pro meter on the tripod. It was clear he wasn’t buying any of this but couldn’t figure out what to do about it. I told him that the device on the tripod was a camera and that shoots something called “film” that I “develop” it in my ”darkroom.” I tried not to get too snarky but I did ask him that if I was shooting with a phone would he even have stopped. He said that wouldn’t and ended up leaving.

busrider · Jun 3, 2022

awty said:
Use a digital camera, they are soulless.

Photographers are soulless, not their medium. And they will argue they are not, they have a "calling" and other crap. I have seen and heard it all.

Vaughn · Jun 3, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Those lions remind me of Patience and Fortitude, the two eleven foot lions in front of the main NYC Public Library on Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street. Been there since 1911.

These lions predate those by just a few years (installed 1908).

pbromaghin · Jun 3, 2022

We don't own the light that bounces of us or our stuff.

Sirius Glass · Jun 3, 2022

VinceInMT said:
A friend is a professional photographer and one of his clients is a real estate company. One time they called and needed exterior photos of a new listing and asked if he could get it right away. He drove out there to what passes as “upscale” in our part of the world and from the sidewalk, got a couple of shots. He drives back to the studio to a ringing phone and it’s the sheriff wanting to know what he was doing photographing the house.

A year or so ago I was driving around looking for subjects for a class assignment on the theme of “repetition.” I spied an apartment building where on the backside I could see that each unit had a window air conditioner hanging out of it. Perfect, just what I needed. I didn’t even get out of my car and got the shot, sitting in the drivers seat while stopped on the street. As I was putting camera down, a car pulls out of the building’s parking lot and goes nose to nose with my car. The guy starts screaming that this is private property and I am not allowed to take photos. I explained that I was on public property and that the eye, and the camera, cannot trespass. He got out his phone and said he was calling the cops to have me arrested. He did and while he was busy talking to them I just backed up and left. I assume that the police told him I was breaking not law.

Not long after that I was shooting another assignment, motion and blur, and walked up to the end of my street to shoot cars driving by on their way to work. I’d take a photo and record the exposure info in my notebook. Then take another photo. When writing, I noticed a police car goes by. He goes around the block and comes up and I get an old fashioned roust. What am I doing? When I told him he asked what I was using to take the photos and I pointed to my film camera. He gives me the stink eye and wants to know what I am really doing. I said it was a class assignement and that I was a university art student. He doubted that, probably because I was well into my 60s, and I handed him the class assignment sheet from my notebook. He glanced at it and kept looking at the camera, a Minolta SRT with a Luna Pro meter on the tripod. It was clear he wasn’t buying any of this but couldn’t figure out what to do about it. I told him that the device on the tripod was a camera and that shoots something called “film” that I “develop” it in my ”darkroom.” I tried not to get too snarky but I did ask him that if I was shooting with a phone would he even have stopped. He said that wouldn’t and ended up leaving.

Well we know from television and movies that the photographer taking photographs of beautiful women is always the guilty evil doer who what the one who-done-her-in. Lessons learned: Never trust a photographer.

benjiboy · Jun 4, 2022

The price of film and processing these days, I can't afford to photograph people I don't know. Problem solved.

NB23 · Jun 4, 2022

Just yesterday I asked to take a photo of a dog. Damn, I felt creepy and stupid. Why did I waste a valuable fuji c200 frame on a dog?

Tel · Jun 4, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
When I had my dog with me, it was always easier to approach strangers to get the shot.

Woof by Alan Klein, on Flickr

If you could just teach the dog to work the camera.....

KerrKid · Jun 4, 2022

I went out this morning and took about 50 pix in a local park with my digi. Sorry, but I’m not going to waste film on blog stuff.

Everyone I approached was very flattered and thanked me for taking the picture. It’s all how you ask and maybe how you look.

I forgot to take my business cards so they could get in touch with me. Next time.

KerrKid · Jun 4, 2022

darr said:
Sounds like you had a productive photo shooting day!
When I don't want to waste film, its digital for me as well.
Film is getting to be like gold these days.

Best to you!

Thanks! It was a good day at Louise Hays Park in Kerrville, TX. First day blogging with the digi so I was learning it’s functions. Had a film camera, too, but didn’t end up using it.

Some pix came out great and some so-so. Not a big problem for a blog, really. I was shooting aperture priority at f8 and it was very sunny so shutter speed was good and I got good depth of field.

I got to use the “can I take a picture of your dog?” line suggested here and it worked a charm. I also approached a couple fishing and said, “I’d like to take a fishing picture. Do you mind?” They were thrilled. I also asked a teenager, “Do you mind if I get a picture of you fishing?” He really liked that. Too bad one of those pix is a bit out of focus.

Blog at www.kerrkid.com if anyone wants to sear their eyes. I don’t write much. Mostly just pix.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 4, 2022

VinceInMT said:
A friend is a professional photographer and one of his clients is a real estate company. One time they called and needed exterior photos of a new listing and asked if he could get it right away. He drove out there to what passes as “upscale” in our part of the world and from the sidewalk, got a couple of shots. He drives back to the studio to a ringing phone and it’s the sheriff wanting to know what he was doing photographing the house.

A year or so ago I was driving around looking for subjects for a class assignment on the theme of “repetition.” I spied an apartment building where on the backside I could see that each unit had a window air conditioner hanging out of it. Perfect, just what I needed. I didn’t even get out of my car and got the shot, sitting in the drivers seat while stopped on the street. As I was putting camera down, a car pulls out of the building’s parking lot and goes nose to nose with my car. The guy starts screaming that this is private property and I am not allowed to take photos. I explained that I was on public property and that the eye, and the camera, cannot trespass. He got out his phone and said he was calling the cops to have me arrested. He did and while he was busy talking to them I just backed up and left. I assume that the police told him I was breaking not law.

Not long after that I was shooting another assignment, motion and blur, and walked up to the end of my street to shoot cars driving by on their way to work. I’d take a photo and record the exposure info in my notebook. Then take another photo. When writing, I noticed a police car goes by. He goes around the block and comes up and I get an old fashioned roust. What am I doing? When I told him he asked what I was using to take the photos and I pointed to my film camera. He gives me the stink eye and wants to know what I am really doing. I said it was a class assignement and that I was a university art student. He doubted that, probably because I was well into my 60s, and I handed him the class assignment sheet from my notebook. He glanced at it and kept looking at the camera, a Minolta SRT with a Luna Pro meter on the tripod. It was clear he wasn’t buying any of this but couldn’t figure out what to do about it. I told him that the device on the tripod was a camera and that shoots something called “film” that I “develop” it in my ”darkroom.” I tried not to get too snarky but I did ask him that if I was shooting with a phone would he even have stopped. He said that wouldn’t and ended up leaving.

Years ago before "no-fault- divorce, private detectives would sneak around shooting pictures through motel windows of adulterers. Their clients needed evidence to prove cheating so they could get a legal divorce, one of the few acts that would allow it. It made for interesting movies and TV shows of the 1950s. Some of the detectives would get black eyes when caught doing their dirty deeds.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 4, 2022

KerrKid said:
Thanks! It was a good day at Louise Hays Park in Kerrville, TX. First day blogging with the digi so I was learning it’s functions. Had a film camera, too, but didn’t end up using it.

Some pix came out great and some so-so. Not a big problem for a blog, really. I was shooting aperture priority at f8 and it was very sunny so shutter speed was good and I got good depth of field.

I got to use the “can I take a picture of your dog?” line suggested here and it worked a charm. I also approached a couple fishing and said, “I’d like to take a fishing picture. Do you mind?” They were thrilled. I also asked a teenager, “Do you mind if I get a picture of you fishing?” He really liked that. Too bad one of those pix is a bit out of focus.

Blog at www.kerrkid.com if anyone wants to sear their eyes. I don’t write much. Mostly just pix.

Nice shots.

MartinCrabtree · Jun 5, 2022

NB23 said:
Just yesterday I asked to take a photo of a dog. Damn, I felt creepy and stupid. Why did I waste a valuable fuji c200 frame on a dog?

Because Dogs are better than the majority of humans that own them.

Moose22 · Jun 5, 2022

MartinCrabtree said:
Because Dogs are better than the majority of humans that own them.

And dogs will sometimes come up to me and stare. When they're staring at you you might as well:

Don_ih · Jun 5, 2022

This thread had gone to the dogs.

2015-12 Contax III Pearson Airport

warden · Jun 6, 2022

KerrKid said:
Why is it that strangers act like you're stealing their souls with your magic box when you take their picture?

Most would be flattered if they caught you sketching or painting a picture of them, but take a photograph of them? Oh no.

What is the deal with this?

Many people just don't want to be photographed. Some don't want unnecessary pictures of them on the internet, feeding stalkerware search engines and extortion machines. I respect that.

A Face Search Engine Anyone Can Use Is Alarmingly Accurate (Published 2022)

PimEyes is a paid service that finds photos of a person from across the internet, including some the person may not want exposed. “We’re just a tool provider,” its owner said.

www.nytimes.com

KerrKid · Jun 6, 2022

warden said:
Many people just don't want to be photographed. Some don't want unnecessary pictures of them on the internet, feeding stalkerware search engines and extortion machines. I respect that.

A Face Search Engine Anyone Can Use Is Alarmingly Accurate (Published 2022)

PimEyes is a paid service that finds photos of a person from across the internet, including some the person may not want exposed. “We’re just a tool provider,” its owner said.

www.nytimes.com

Sad. And what they can’t legitimately find, they can photoshop into reality.

Stealing their souls

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