Stealing their souls

KerrKid · Jun 2, 2022

Why is it that strangers act like you're stealing their souls with your magic box when you take their picture?

Most would be flattered if they caught you sketching or painting a picture of them, but take a photograph of them? Oh no.

What is the deal with this?

pentaxuser · Jun 2, 2022

Well the former is in a controlled situation and usually initiated by the person being sketched or painted.

A sketch or a painting thus forms no threat compared to a pic by a stranger that may have a purpose other than a simple portrait and ends up on social media

pentaxuser

KerrKid · Jun 2, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Well the former is in a controlled situation and usually initiated by the person being sketched or painted.

A sketch or a painting thus forms no threat compared to a pic by a stranger that may have a purpose other than a simple portrait and ends up on social media

pentaxuser

So the real threat is what could be done with the photograph as opposed to what could be done with a sketch or painting? And then there's the issue of consent, although a sketch could be made without someone's consent, too. Is there an accuracy of image and immediacy factor at work here?

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 2, 2022

One is more admissible as evidence than the other, depending on the jurisdiction.

The ubiquity of cell phones acting as de-facto spy [video] cameras doesn't help matters, especially when the layperson can't distinguish between the capabilities an iPhone and a 35mm point & shoot.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 2, 2022

Because the camera adds 10 pounds.

runswithsizzers · Jun 2, 2022

It would never have occured to me to ask your question. The more obvious question, from my point of view, would be, "Why do photographers act like thy have a right to stick cameras in our faces without permission?"

That is, for me, the default position would be that every individual has the right to be left alone without harassment in public spaces. I was raised in a culture where you don't bother nobody, and they don't bother you. Anyone who does otherwise is, a. not from around here, and b. a rude person.

busrider · Jun 2, 2022

Graven image

KerrKid · Jun 2, 2022

runswithsizzers said:
It would never have occured to me to ask your question. The more obvious question, from my point of view, would be, "Why do photographers act like thy have a right to stick cameras in our faces without permission?"

That is, for me, the default position would be that every individual has the right to be left alone without harassment in public spaces.

That's a bit more aggression than I was considering, but it brings up the point of aggression. We "take" pictures and "capture" images. It seems somewhat aggressive by nature.

runswithsizzers · Jun 2, 2022

KerrKid said:
That's a bit more aggression than I was considering, but it brings up the point of aggression. We "take" pictures and "capture" images. It seems somewhat aggressive by nature.

Yes, and we "shoot" people, too. No wonder if they are a little nervous about it.

Sirius Glass · Jun 2, 2022

Superstition is one reason.
Wanting to control things in their life, often people down on their luck.

Moose22 · Jun 2, 2022

Andrew O'Neill said:
Because the camera adds 10 pounds.

I have a GX680. So, literally.

Also, I don't care for having my photograph taken. If I ask you not to, politely, and reasonably, you shouldn't. I don't expect too much in places like public venues and events. I'll even move out of the way so you can get your shots, and I'm pretty good at helping you by using your own camera or cellular telephone if you want a shot of you and your friends. I just don't want to be in it. If you don't hassle me we're all good.

But I don't have to give reasons. I don't like it is reason enough. I treat others with similar respect when I have a camera.

It can be hard for people to fathom, and I know you mean well @KerrKid , but everyone has their own reasons. I refuse to explain because I find that explanations just makes it worse with the type who want to push the issue. They see it as an opening to try and convince me, or to cajole me, or to harass me -- and it goes downhill. I will go to war if you cannot accept my polite requests. Someone often does.

gone · Jun 2, 2022

You're hanging around w/ the wrong people. Once you find the people w/o souls, no problem. Large cities are usually good places to find those types. I had one, but seem to have misplaced it during the last move. Last time that happened, it was out in the back yard w/ the cat, so it has some small teeth marks from that adventure.

This is mostly an Invisible Photographer kinda thing. You have to truly believe you're invisible, and shooting a short tele lens will really, really help. It pays to have a sixth sense w/ this, just get a general feel for the vibes so to speak.

A smile and a quick in and out will do the trick almost every time.

MattKing · Jun 2, 2022

I've had really good success engaging first with people, then having them cooperate with the photo.
And I've had enough experience with that to be able to make photos that look natural - even the ones which are clearly constructed.
Of course, I've worked as a newspaper photographer. And I've worked as a portrait and wedding photographer. Both give you lots of practice!
The other thing you can try is sneaking up to them when they have their head buried in something

awty · Jun 3, 2022

Use a digital camera, they are soulless.

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

KerrKid said:
Most would be flattered if they caught you sketching or painting a picture of them

Most strangers would be flattered by that? I don't think so....

guangong · Jun 3, 2022

I both photograph and sketch. Both can be accomplished discreetly. If you wish to take a portrait, fire camera and then tell subject how interesting their face, pose, etc., and ask if you could send them a copy. This is the approach that my friend Louie Stettner used.
Most people are more involved with their own activities and thoughts to notice a camera. Currently I am shooting in a brightly lit coffee shop using a Contax IIa with shiny chrome lenses that must be visible two blocks away. Recently took pic of a beautiful young couple deep in thought while sitting only one booth away. When sketching, no one ever notices.
On the other hand, not being noticed may be difficult if using a digital camera-lens outfit the size of a football.

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

The problem is when people think you're taking a photo of them rather than the scene. That's even more of a problem because some people are going to be taking photos of particular people rather than that person in context or as part of a scene. If you want to take portraits, ask people to let you do it.

Winogrand's picture. This woman seems to want to punch Garry. Should this photo be so easy to find on the internet? Well, the internet didn't exist when the photo was taken, so that wasn't a concern. Also, at the time, photos like this were worth almost nothing and maybe showed on a few gallery walls. Since then, of course, all that has changed. Anyway, Winogrand himself said that, when he found the person in his photo attractive, he couldn't easily judge if the photo was interesting or if the person in the photo was interesting -- and that, he considered, to be a major problem.

So, he was standing there pointing the camera to take a photo of someone who clearly didn't want to be photographed. Does this photo have any value?

We have no idea who that woman is. Winogrand probably had no idea who she was. Is this a portrait? I'd say it now depicts a time more than just being a photo of a person. The woman is probably still alive and may or may not know this photo exists, probably doesn't recall the photo being taken, may or may not have an opinion on this photo. Should she have the right to say, "I didn't want that photo taken, destroy all copies."?

Dali · Jun 3, 2022

You are talking about Garry Winogrand, but what about Bruce Gilden...

Don_ih · Jun 3, 2022

Dali said:
Bruce Gilden

His flash-in-your-face photos are kid of the definitive statement of street photography invading privacy. At the very least, they shatter expectations.

Unlike that, I'd imagine Winogrand was pointing his camera at that woman and probably would have taken a photo (maybe never published it) even if she didn't have any reaction. People are not reacting to the camera in most of his photos.

And my question was about the rights of the subject, whether they exist at all and, if they do, how long and how far those rights should exist. People are responsible for how they appear in public. And anything that can be seen in public should be fair game for photographers .... or should it?

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 3, 2022

runswithsizzers said:
It would never have occured to me to ask your question. The more obvious question, from my point of view, would be, "Why do photographers act like thy have a right to stick cameras in our faces without permission?"

That is, for me, the default position would be that every individual has the right to be left alone without harassment in public spaces. I was raised in a culture where you don't bother nobody, and they don't bother you. Anyone who does otherwise is, a. not from around here, and b. a rude person.

Isn't Missouri the "show me state"?

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 3, 2022

Some people are very self-conscious how they look to others.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 3, 2022

Why do so many here avoid pictures of themselves as their avatar, especially here on a photo site?

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 3, 2022

KerrKid said:
Why is it that strangers act like you're stealing their souls with your magic box when you take their picture?

Most would be flattered if they caught you sketching or painting a picture of them, but take a photograph of them? Oh no.

What is the deal with this?

What do you look like?

NB23 · Jun 3, 2022

Meh. When someone comes to tell me I have done wrong by taking their picture, I BURST IN LAUGHTER and I POINT and WAVE my index in all directions while I’M EXPLODING LAUGHING. Between two EXPLOSIVE LAUGHTERS, I tell them that we are presently being filmed by at least 8 hidden cameras all around us.

And I leave, LAUGHING LOUDER.

This leaves the person totally flabbergasted.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 3, 2022

MattKing said:
I've had really good success engaging first with people, then having them cooperate with the photo.
And I've had enough experience with that to be able to make photos that look natural - even the ones which are clearly constructed.
Of course, I've worked as a newspaper photographer. And I've worked as a portrait and wedding photographer. Both give you lots of practice!
The other thing you can try is sneaking up to them when they have their head buried in something
View attachment 307144

Curious if anyone ever had their photo bag stolen while their head was under the cloth?

Stealing their souls

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Stealing their souls

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