Status of Fomapan 200

Aurelien · Feb 15, 2010

David A. Goldfarb said:
Since this seems like there may be no new information here, and the original poster's source is MACO, a redistributor, rather than Foma, the manufacturer, I've updated the title of this thread. If anyone can get more information from Foma, that would be useful.

I am waiting for their answer, as I was connected with them because of the scratches problem...

Aurelien · Feb 16, 2010

Just received this email form Dana Hojna, Foma:

Dear Aurelien,
thank you for the sending the films.
We will analyze it and will inform you!

Regarding to the Fomapan 200 - as you are informed from Maco soon:
Our supplier of a raw material which is necessary for the production the
Fomapan 200 emulsion finished production.
Foma after very intensive negotiations and testing, unfortunately, could not
replace this element so that we can´t supply Fomapan 200 in high quality as
is required.
This is the reason why we are forced to close production Fomapan 200 at
present.
We regret it very much.

I will await the samples from you,
kind regards
Dana

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 16, 2010

Thanks for posting.

Ian Grant · Feb 16, 2010

Which again adds nothing new at all as it's the same cut & paste data.

Note the "This is the reason why we are forced to close production Fomapan 200 at present." Which does not mean it's discontinued.

Ian

Aurelien · Feb 16, 2010

Ian Grant said:
Which again adds nothing new at all as it's the same cut & paste data.

Note the "This is the reason why we are forced to close production Fomapan 200 at present." Which does not mean it's discontinued.

Ian

I agree with you Ian, they have a ready to post answer concerning this issue. We don't know if yes or not they keep trying to continue it.

You are so right ...

If I have more news, I will tell you

Aurelien · Feb 17, 2010

Well, Miss Hojna answered to your question, Ian

"We didn´t stop searching the solution, but we don´t know if we will be
succesful in it and in case yes - certainly it would be not in short time.
We regret very much this situation and thank you for your understanding.
We hope that you will be satisfied with other of our products and will
continue in using our materials."

Better, no?

mikebarger · Feb 17, 2010

sounds like a lost cause, but they gave it an effort.

Mike

Uncle Bill · Feb 17, 2010

Sad news, I have one roll left in 35mm. I guess I just go down to their 100 ISO now....

Ian Grant · Feb 18, 2010

Thanks Aurelien, that matches what has been posted before. Basically one of the larger Foma dealers has said that the film is having to be reformulated. which matches what you posted,and that it takes time to test a new emulsion and it was not likely a replacement could be ready before the Spring, that colould mean April or May. Assumiongh it's feasible.

Ian

RobertV · Feb 22, 2010

The replacement seems to be a problem when using an other material so that Foma can not continue on the same type quality level. They are searching for other alternatives now. In December distributors were informed about a possible production problem. Unfortunately Foma could not solve this in time. It's a pity because I think Fomapan Creative 200 is one of their best films.

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 22, 2010

Mirko from ADOX/Fotoimpex posted in the German forum that he thinks these announcements are not telling us anything new, and are probably just creating some uncertainty due to the vagaries of Czech-English translation--

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I'm a little unsure as to what Einsatzstoff refers to in this context (the film base? perhaps the gelatin?), but whatever it is, it's changed and they are unable to compensate for it by simply adjusting the coating thickness, so they continue to work on a new solution.

RobertV · Feb 22, 2010

Dear Robert,
thank you for your e-mail.
1) Rollfilms - thank you for sending the films - we will test it and will inform you!
2) Fomapan 200:
Our supplier of a raw material which is necessary for the production the Fomapan 200 emulsion finished production.
Foma after very intensive negotiations and testing, unfortunately, could not replace this element so that we can´t supply Fomapan 200 in high quality as is required.
This is the reason why we are forced to close production Fomapan 200 at present.
We regret it very much, but we are not able to provide this product currently.

Hoping to hear you soon,
have a nice day
best regards,
Dana

But Dana can also answer in German language and for me with some extra efforts in Czech too.

This missing material is special for Fomapan Creative 200 film. It has to do with the cubical and hexagonal structure of this unique film. It's up to Foma now to find any alternative material because what they tried so far was not successfull.

Here an electronic microscope photo from the Fomapan Creative 200 emulsion.
This structure is pretty unique and not found by any other B&W film manufacturer.

Tom Kershaw · Feb 22, 2010

Robert,

So Fomapan 200 is a designed grain / traditional hybrid film?

Tom

RobertV · Feb 22, 2010

Yes, you can descripe it in this way. But even to compete with Ilford (Delta) and Kodak (TMax) on the same level is not possible. In this way Kodak has at the moment the best technology. To reformulate a new Fomapan Creative 200 film is expensive and maybe for marketing reasons not profitable at all. But these are just my personal insight situation.

Aurelien · Feb 22, 2010

RobertV said:
Yes, you can descripe it in this way. But even to compete with Ilford (Delta) and Kodak (TMax) on the same level is not possible. In this way Kodak has at the moment the best technology. To reformulate a new Fomapan Creative 200 film is expensive and maybe for marketing reasons not profitable at all. But these are just my personal insight situation.

Expensive, yes, but do you think that Foma can keep going with only two films in their catalog?

RobertV · Feb 22, 2010

Expensive, yes, but do you think that Foma can keep going with only two films in their catalog?

Yes, two convential B&W films, iso 100 and iso 400.

In 2001 Foma stopped their T800 film production due to a lack of interest from the market. The film was based on the same technology as this T200 film but due to weak technology too grainy for it's regular speed (iso 640).

The Fomapan T200 (creative 200) has in most developers a speed of iso 125-160. I like it very much in Rodinal 1+50 with an iso speed of 125, suitable for high sharpness and a type of special grain, therefore nice in my Leica M7, 135-36.
In tri acetate not so curly then on 120 roll film with a dark blue dye as A.H. layer.

Here an example made in Prague.

jmcd · Feb 22, 2010

I have come to love Foma 200 in Xtol 1:1 and in Rodinal 1:50. It makes marvelous prints.

Since it's production is in doubt or at least on hold, I hope that Foma can bring out Foma 400 in sheet film sizes. Foma 400 has excellent tonal qualities, and looks super in Xtol 1:1.

mikebarger · Feb 22, 2010

If they are good ones without QA issues, yes. I would worry that more that to many SKU's may dilute their better sellers. Just a thought

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 22, 2010

I tried Foma 200 for the first time ever. I bought the last remaining rolls of the Arista.EDU 200 from Freestyle before they ran out of stock; at the time I wasn't aware that they were going to be discontinued.
The results are good. I feel the 100 and the 200 are very similar in their tonal reproduction. The EI for me was 125 with the 200 and 80 with the 100, so speed wise they are pretty close, about 2/3 stops apart.

There are definitely little specks and spots in the emulsion of the Foma films that I don't find in Kodak or Ilford films. Don't know if that is due to the supplier issue Foma has had. But after I'm done with this batch of Foma film, I'll probably jump back to all Kodak films. As beautiful as they are in their tonality, I just don't trust them as far as getting negatives that I can make large prints from anymore.

Foma 200 processed in replenished Xtol attached.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 22, 2010

Foma 100 / 200 / 400 comparison

And here is some scientific evidence that the Foma 100, 200, and 400 are virtually identical tonality wise. The attached file is a comparison of the Foma data sheets of the 100 200, and 400 emulsions. Spectral response curves are almost the same, the 200 sheets and 400 reaches farther into the 600nm spectrum, almost to 700nm, where the 100 and 200 rolls cut a little earlier. This confirms my suspicion above about them tonally looking the same.

So, the 200 is just a happy medium speed wise and grain wise between its two cousins. Perhaps it makes sense for Foma to only have the 100 and 400, and not have too many different products in times like these, where they can reduce inventory and cost of production? I don't know. But it is sad to see films go, that's for sure.

- Thomas

Rolleiflexible · Feb 22, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
And here is some scientific evidence that the Foma 100, 200, and 400 are virtually identical tonality wise. The attached file is a comparison of the Foma data sheets of the 100 200, and 400 emulsions. Spectral response curves are almost the same, the 200 sheets and 400 reaches farther into the 600nm spectrum, almost to 700nm, where the 100 and 200 rolls cut a little earlier. This confirms my suspicion above about them tonally looking the same.

So, the 200 is just a happy medium speed wise and grain wise between its two cousins. Perhaps it makes sense for Foma to only have the 100 and 400, and not have too many different products in times like these, where they can reduce inventory and cost of production? I don't know. But it is sad to see films go, that's for sure.

- Thomas

Tom, I have used Foma 200 exclusively for
my 35mm film. I've grown attached to it for
a couple of reasons. First, the antihalation
layer seems less effective than other films,
allowing a slight halation in highlights when
overexposed -- a subtle effect that I like.
Second, the film dries perfectly flat -- no
bow or curl at all. Can you tell me whether
the 100 or 400 versions shares either or both
of these qualities?

Uncle Bill · Feb 22, 2010

I have shot with some Foma 100 and processed in Rodinal 1+50 with no curl issues. I however have no experience with Foma 400.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 22, 2010

Sanders,

I have used a fair bit of the Foma 400 in 35mm lately, and its grain is tremendously beautiful. I am of the opinion that the antihalation layer of this film is not as effective as that of Kodak or Ilford. The bright/dark adjacencies are not as crisp as with other films.

I've attached a neg scan that seems to perhaps emphasize this. No comparison to other film, though. I love the 400 film for portraiture.

The 400 dries flat as a nail.

The 100 is nice too, but too slow for me usually.

- Thomas

Rolleiflexible · Feb 22, 2010

Thomas, thanks for this. I bought a
can of the 200 last month and now
you make me think I should have
bought the 400 instead. I've attached
a couple of my photos shot on the
200, that exhibit the visual qualities
I admire in the film.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 22, 2010

Sanders, I think you can find most of what you found in the 200 with the 400. It will be slightly grainier, but the grain is really pretty. Try a couple of rolls out. You may wish to develop the 400 a little longer than you process the 200. It takes a bit longer to build the highlight density it seems.

It would be interesting to see how you fare with the 400. Those are beautiful shots you attached. I remember them both from a couple of years back. Especially the one of Melanie is amazing!

- Thomas

Status of Fomapan 200

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