Starting with Legacy Pro dev., infrequent use... bother with replenish method?

jay moussy · May 11, 2022

I have to mix a batch of Legacy Pro Eco, as a way to explore Xtol clones.
My developing is somewhat infrequent (should change that!), Paterson tank size, so:

- ignore replenish methods and use whole?

- manage the storage
*using 1-liter screwtop glass bottles, or opt for wine bag?
* use inert gas (which?)?

Donald Qualls · May 11, 2022

Replenishment mainly has benefits for higher volume processing, but can be used and works well with as few as a couple rolls a month. Diluted one-shot or reused stock with extended development as recommended) is slightly simpler, however.

Either way, you need to protect your stock solution (and tank solution if replenishing) from air. Wine bags are best for one-shot or to store the replenisher, because you only have to debubble once and they're at least as impervious as any plastic. If you use glass, you'll inevitably have dead space; argon and butane are commonly used blanketing gases (butane is cheaper, but some are concerned about flammability).

MattKing · May 11, 2022

The replenishment regime involves topping up the working solution each time, so for that good quality plastic or glass containers work well. I am using a 2 quart plastic refrigerator juice container for my working solution XTol, because it offers both a large opening for volume filling and pouring, and a smaller opening for smaller amounts, while still exposing the solution to very little air in the "throat".
The wine bags are an excellent "solution" for the replenisher.
This is similar to what I'm using for the working solution:

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2022

I use replenishment with XTOL which is similar. Even if one does not develop film often, replenishing XTOL et al improves to results of the developer over time with an incremental improvement with each roll until well matured.

jay moussy · May 11, 2022

@Donald Qualls are your wine pouches the 5 L amazon/Astrapouch with the top filler cap? How is the dispenser spigot?

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2022

Take a look at StopLossBags™ www.StopLossBags.com The come with a collapsible funnel for filling. One can push out the air and seal tightly. I have been using them for years with XTOL and not had the developer go bad from oxidation.

Donald Qualls · May 12, 2022

jay moussy said:
@Donald Qualls are your wine pouches the 5 L amazon/Astrapouch with the top filler cap? How is the dispenser spigot?

I think that's right. Haven't filled one yet, keep running out of weekend before my weekend stuff gets done (and groceries, puppies, honey-do stuff take priority).

Sirius Glass · May 12, 2022

I use five 1 liter StopLossBags™ [reference post #5] which has the same result as @Donald Qualls' 5 liter bag.

McDiesel · May 12, 2022

I found AstraPouch bags to be amazing. I use them for everything. Working Xtol solution lasts up to 9 months in them without any change in activity. Quite possibly it's far longer than 9 months, but I use up all 5L within that time frame so didn't have a chance to test further.

Regarding replenishing: I enjoy process monitoring with control strips and a densitometer, happy to chat more about that. But frankly, my default advice would be to skip replenishment: there's no benefit to it other than cost saving. The negatives look the same as stock Xtol both in terms of shadow/mids/highs densities as well as the grain structure.

Wallendo · May 12, 2022

I develop 35mm in Eco Pro or XTOL at 1+1 with 250ml (125ml/roll). This will develop up to 40 rolls of film. I store the developer in 1L "Smart Water" bottles from the grocery store with no issues.

For first time users of these developers, I would start as single use. If you are happy with the developer and want to continue with a replenished regimen, you could start a replenished regimen at any time as long as you still have two unopened bottles available.

Donald Qualls · May 13, 2022

Wallendo said:
you could start a replenished regimen at any time as long as you still have two unopened bottles available.

I went replenished when I first mixed Xtol, because I have a Yankee Agitank that needs 1.6 L of liquid to cover one or more 4x5 sheets. Using 800 ml of stock solution is bad enough for a capacity load of 12 sheet (= 3 rolls); but for fewer, it's just too hard for me to accept. With replenishment, you only expend an amount proportional to the film area processed (~18 ml for a single 4x5 sheet).

tokam · May 15, 2022

A quick question regarding replenishment of XTOL if you are not developing regularly. I have read that if you are not using your replenished solution regularly that you should replenish it with the regular 70 ml of stock as if you had just developed a 36 exp 35 mm film. The replenishment interval was recommended to be on a weekly basis.

Does anyone here have thoughts on this?

TIA.

Donald Qualls · May 15, 2022

tokam said:
I have read that if you are not using your replenished solution regularly that you should replenish it with the regular 70 ml of stock as if you had just developed a 36 exp 35 mm film. The replenishment interval was recommended to be on a weekly basis.

Myth.

Replenishment is to compensate for exhaustion, which has different effects from aging.

From my own experience, occasionally processing as little as a roll a month, there wasn't any noticeable change in activity of my Xtol stock. It's very possible/likely that someone running test strips and adjusting their replenishment rate to maintain a very consistent process would disagree with this, but such a one would be very unlikely to leave their stock solution in the bottle for weeks because they're most likely running twenty times as much film as I do.

MattKing · May 15, 2022

I used to recommend that, but I don't any more.
It doesn't actually make logical sense.
I've wondered whether the benefit that may have flowed from that routine related to there being a benefit from stirring up the working solution once per week, and have considered doing that instead.

Donald Qualls · May 15, 2022

I'd also add that if your storage container (I use emptied and washed PETE soda and seltzer bottles for my tank solution) is impermeable and has near-zero airspace, your tank solution isn't aging any more/faster than your replenisher (which is presumably in a similar bottle if not a wine bladder or Stop Loss pouch). In my case, for the year or so when I ran Xtol replenished (hope to get that back up with Eco Pro soon), my replenisher proved impossible to keep at zero airspace in the bottles I had, so my tank solution was probably less prone to aging related degradation than my replenisher.

McDiesel · May 15, 2022

@tokam as someone who is running a process control with strips I have not noticed any need for it. The longest I've gone between development sessions was maybe 3-4 weeks and I did not observe any reduction in activity, so there was no need to replenish without development.

I had a theory regarding that advice. Last year I noticed that my replenishment volume required to maintain the same densities had gone up. I had no external variables to blame, my water was distilled and my storage temperature hadn't changed. Then Kodak issued a recall on some of their manufacturing batches, and once I received the replacement everything went back to normal. So perhaps there was a stretch of time when people used defective Xtol which somehow reduced activity of their working bottle? I tried to prove this theory and tested the strength of the 6-month old replenisher bottle of a defective batch, but I proved nothing - it was as good as fresh.

MattKing · May 15, 2022

That once a week advice came from many years before the recent problems - possibly even before Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.
Who knows from where.

tokam · May 15, 2022

Great! Thanks for the above from all concerned. My working solution will be held in PET bottle, (not decided on 1.25 L or 2 litre). Stock solution will be in a 5 L bag that the 'pure' water came in. In OZ we have a brand of packaged water in a bladder called Pureau. I'll see how I go. Gonna buy a new bucket for mixing up the XTOL.

Sirius Glass · May 16, 2022

For a long time I did not replenish. After a few years I tried replenishment and I like the results better. The choice is up to you.

jay moussy · Jun 6, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
I think that's right. Haven't filled one yet, keep running out of weekend before my weekend stuff gets done (and groceries, puppies, honey-do stuff take priority).

So, how did the Amazon bags go?
(i got a set sitting in my cart...)

Uh, we need pics of the puppies!

Donald Qualls · Jun 6, 2022

Still running out of weekend.

And for puppy pictures to post here, I'd have to ask my partner (who is the breeder in the house), but you can visit the web site. Four of the eight are gone already, one was injured when a few days old (mama dog stepped on him, we think) but seems fully recovered (I'm told he'll need surgery eventually), one of his sisters is going to stay to either be a service dog or for breeding, and still two available.

Starting with Legacy Pro dev., infrequent use... bother with replenish method?

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Starting with Legacy Pro dev., infrequent use... bother with replenish method?

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