Starting up my home RA4 printing

59gilbert · Mar 8, 2016

I have been processing C-41 at home for a few years, and I am about to start trying out developing color prints. I am having some doubts regarding paper and chemistry. My question is: can I use the paper and chemicals which are intended for use in minilabs? or are they different? As I can see, they are named exactly the same, and should I suppose they work in both minilabs and manual darkroom enlargements?

Thanks a lot!

Jim Taylor · Mar 8, 2016

I use the 5l Kodak RA4 chemistry - developer and blix. I use a Thermophot ACP-502 paper processor and don't bother with a developer starter.

Once mixed, it lasts forever if stored in full glass bottles - but there's loads of other posts on here about it's keeping properties!

jsmithphoto1 · Mar 9, 2016

You can. Just find mixing ratios. Some minilab formulas are made for high-capacity, longer exposure to oxygen, lower-capacity... et cetera... If you do use the Kodak chemistry, I would recommend mixing it all when opened, if what Jim says is true for everyone. I purchased a 20-liter C-41 kit 2 years ago and have used it off-and-on since, and the stock concentrates are still good. However, it was a year ago when I purchased the RA-4 developer (10-liters, I think) and treated it the same as the C-41. Needless to say, I made a couple of liters of working solution and stored the concentrates only to return to them a couple of months later to learn the color developer concentrate went bad. Lesson learned! It is interesting to see what lasts and what doesn't. Post some examples of your first works! They are wonderful to look back on several years down the road.

59gilbert · Mar 9, 2016

Thanks guys!

JSmith, you are right. I was told from day1 that working solutions are more stable when I was starting with C-41. For my C-41, the same batch of solutions has been stored and consumed across a timespan of 2+ years.

Jim, yes, Kodak RA-4 is what I want to start with, from what I read.

What about the paper? I can find Fuji CA2 at B&H in cut sheets and rolls. Are they also exactly the same?

Cheers! Happy darkrooming!

bvy · Mar 9, 2016

Fuji Crystal Archive in sheets is the way to start. Yes, it should be identical to the rolls. It will work fine in the darkroom. You can choose between matte, lustre and glossy. The matte, to my eyes, is comparable to Ilford's "Pearl" sheen. It's what I use.

I buy the Ektacolor chemicals from Unique Photo. Just make sure that none of the developer components are brown. I've had this experience more than once.

DREW WILEY · Mar 9, 2016

I recommend Kodak RA/RT chemistry, though there is an identical Arista-branded substitute kit if you happen to deal with Freestyle. Unlike others, I
prefer to mix chemical fresh for each session from the components and not keep mixed solutions around more than an extra day or so. Good temperature control is important, along with good ventilation. I've got various Fuji papers on hand. You can select from Super C, CAII, or even rolls
of Supergloss, depending on your budget, print size, and sheen preference. The differences in color balance and technique are quite minor, but the look can vary greatly product to product.

59gilbert · Mar 16, 2016

Another question is...
What does the stabilizer do? To prevent color fading?
So, if I skipped the conditioner, how soon do I expect to see color fading to occur? (for unframed prints)
Thanks!

Wayne · Mar 16, 2016

Stabilizer inhibits growth of microorganisms that attack the emulsion. Search this forum for "the final word on color stabilizers" thread

bvy · Mar 16, 2016

Kodak Final Rinse is cheap and easy to use. It servers as stabilizer and wetting agent. It's not a bath you want to skip.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

You don't need stabilizer unless you are replenishing your chemicals rather than using them one-shot. And unless you're a big commercial lab, RA4 chem is affordable enough to routinely use one-shot.

MattKing · Mar 17, 2016

bvy said:
Kodak Final Rinse is cheap and easy to use. It servers as stabilizer and wetting agent. It's not a bath you want to skip.

DREW WILEY said:
You don't need stabilizer unless you are replenishing your chemicals rather than using them one-shot. And unless you're a big commercial lab, RA4 chem is affordable enough to routinely use one-shot.

Drew is right, for the wrong reasons.

This is a thread about prints - RA4 in Kodak terms - and there is no role for stabilizer or final rinse when it comes to colour prints.

Stabilizer/final rinse is for film.

bvy · Mar 17, 2016

MattKing said:
This is a thread about prints - RA4 in Kodak terms - and there is no role for stabilizer or final rinse when it comes to colour prints.

Stabilizer/final rinse is for film.

My mistake. Sorry for the confusion.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

There are indeed RA4 stabilizers. I've never use them because I properly wash each print. Minilab lines certainly don't have that luxury. They're
going for speed and quantity.

RPC · Aug 5, 2017

As alluded to above, a stabilizer is not necessary at home if you wash your prints well after the beach-fix. Stabilizer is used by mini-labs that use a washless process. The prints go from the bleach-fix directly into a stabilizer bath, then dried, and are not water-washed. Stabilizers were used in some home print processes many years ago, even with a wash.

rpavich · Aug 6, 2017

btaylor said:
I have read the discussions on C41 and RA4 stabilizers, and I am still unsure about the use of RA4 stabilizers for RA4 paper. I use a Beseler roller transport processor. It has 4 baths, I have it set for dev/blix/wash/stabilizer. 1 minute in each bath. Does the stabilizer have a worthwhile effect on long term print stability? If I don't use it I would set up baths 3 and 4 as a running water wash, amounting to a 2 minute wash.

For RA-4 chems?

I never heard of it.

My RA-4 routine is:

Water rinse 1 minute.
Dump.
Developer: 2:45
Stop: 30s
Water rinse: 30s
Blix: 2:45
Water wash: 1 minute
Water wash: 1 minute
Water wash: 1 minute

I use Jobo drums on a unicolor roller.

59gilbert · Aug 7, 2017

RPC said:
As alluded to above, a stabilizer is not necessary at home if you wash your prints well after the beach-fix. Stabilizer is used by mini-labs that use a washless process. The prints go from the bleach-fix directly into a stabilizer bath, then dried, and are not water-washed. Stabilizers were used in some home print processes many years ago, even with a wash.

It's been a year and more... I am still keeping the first few test prints, and they still look fine. I soak them in water overnight (ie: no water change.) I didn't bother to buy the stabilizer tablets.

For film, as I have the C-41 stabilizer, I use it also for B/W films to replace photo-flo.

Happy darkrooming guys!

FujiLove · Aug 8, 2017

59gilbert said:
It's been a year and more... I am still keeping the first few test prints, and they still look fine. I soak them in water overnight (ie: no water change.) I didn't bother to buy the stabilizer tablets.

For film, as I have the C-41 stabilizer, I use it also for B/W films to replace photo-flo.

Happy darkrooming guys!

There's no need to wash RA4 prints for a long time, and you definitely don't need to soak them overnight. In fact, you may be in danger of damaging the structure of resin-based papers by soaking them that long.

Kodak recommend a 1m 30s wash at 35C after the blix stage. See this data sheet for full details: http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/j39.pdf

DREW WILEY · Aug 8, 2017

I suspect those wash times are simply accommodated to the routine speed of most automated roller-transport processors, and not necessarily ideal. That's probably why a supplementary stabilizer is used in automated replenishment systems. I do one shot chemistry in a drum, and five or six changes of water in the wash cycle at the end, just to be safe. Whenever I've used commercial labs in the past, I've been distinctly disappointed with the longevity of the prints compared to my own. But since these are not fiber-based prints there is no need for anything resembling a long soak.

Berri · Aug 9, 2017

FujiLove said:
ere's no need to wash RA4 prints for a long time, and you definitely don't need to soak them overnight. In fact, you may be in danger of damaging the structure of resin-based papers by soaking them that long.

True. I sometimes forget test prints in a tray full of water and that causes the emulsion to lift and coloured bits start floating on the water. kinda funky

Wayne · Aug 10, 2017

Furthermore, soaking is not the same as washing. Think of it as bath versus shower. In one you are soaking in your own diluted dirt, and the other you are rinsing it away from you.

Starting up my home RA4 printing

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