Starting up a Home Darkroom

[FormerAirline]

Hi All,
I think I'm ready to take the next step in analog and converting my bathroom into a temporary darkroom. I've been lurking on craigslist for the past week, patiently waiting for a Beseler 23c to appear (as they were time and time again recommended for me).

I lost some patience so I placed a wanted ad, that got a few offers. I got a couple of people wanting to unload their Beseler 67C color setups. I'm not sure if I want a whole lot of color kit that I'm not all that interested in using.

One person said he had two enlargers in his garage and would check them out this weekend. Not sure if he meant that they were the 23c. I left him my number in case he gets back to me.

Another offer the came in today includes:

have a beseler 23 c ii, and a whole darkroom setup. It includes brand new photo paper, an extra lens, trays, all brand new chemicals, a pair of tongs, time, safe light, easel, funnel, darkroom thermometer, chemical storage containers.

All this for $300. Isn't that a bit much? I guess it all depends on the quality of the equipment.

Any tips? I'm excited to start making prints as you can imagine. I got kind of bored with just scanning my negs with my v500 and only seeing them on my computer screen.

 

[Rick A]

Not really, by the time you buy all the accessories you could have more than that in it. My suggestion is to go there in person and offer them $200 cash for the lot, and only pull two $100 bills out of your pocket and lay it in the sellers hand and do not say another word, first person to talk loses. Worst that can happen is they say no. Dont be afraid to dicker.

 

[MattKing]

A 67C set up for colour (with a dichro colour head) can be an excellent black & white enlarger, as long as 6x7 is your largest negative size (the 23C can of course do 6x9). Mine served me well for 25+ years (although only the last couple of years with a colour head).

As for the $300.00 offer, it would depend on the extras - especially the paper, the timer, the lenses and the negative carriers included.

 

[FormerAirline]

Here's the ad for the 67
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pho/2079392965.html
I was offered $150 for the lot. Looks like the lens is a Vivitar.

Ad for the $300.
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pho/2080841643.html
I'll ask this person what lenses they are.

 

[Vilk]

since you're focused on a single model i assume you've done good research and none of this will be new to you... so just for the record:

things like extra lens, paper, chemicals only have value if they're what you were planning to use anyway. similar story with trays: if they're 8x10 and you were planning to print 11x14 minimum, they'll just sit there cluttering your closet. also, you can live for a long time without a timer

there is something to be said for getting only what you need, one thing at a time. takes longer, may be more expensive, but it's fun and it's all yours

don't write off colour even if you only want to print black and white. colour heads are very convenient for setting precise contrast gradations on VC paper

ps. just saw the ads: the trays are tiny and the easel won't be very useful. you may also be shopping for another lens soon... but i like the first lot better

 

[FormerAirline]

I could be swayed by other enlargers or setups. The 23c was very strongly recommended for me though, from a standpoint of availability / parts for repair and quality mostly. Plus I've used them in university, the local darkroom etc.

 

[FormerAirline]

Response on the $300 setup

beslon 1;4 5/100 and the other is fuji photo optical 1;4-5 50mm

 

[MattKing]

The lens for the 67C looks to be a 75mm lens, so I would guess that the carrier is probably for medium format film (6x4.5 or 6x6).

The safelight and the trays tells me that the 67C has been used for B & W as well as colour. The tube and roller motor can be used for B & W as well.

It looks to me like the 67C is newer and, other than the common problem with the missing yellow disk, looks to be in very, very good condition.

My 67C has been in storage since I bought a 4x5 enlarger, but if I had the room for two enlargers, it would still be in use.

If I were choosing between the two, I'd choose the 67C, unless the lenses with the 23C were very good, or I thought I might go to 6x9.

 

[MattKing]

The lenses with the 23C are quite ordinary. Both enlargers are still being manufactured by Beseler (in current models) and parts shouldn't be a problem.

The 23C series enlargers are definitely workhorses though. If the age, accessories, condition and price were more similar, I would be recommending the 23C.

 

[FormerAirline]

Specs for the lenses for the 23c are above.

Most of my stuff is 35mm, although I do use a Minolta Autocord for medium format. If there's one larger system I'd like to get, it would be a Pentax 67, which would be suited to the 67C. My concern with the 67C would be the negative carrier for 35 perhaps. I'll get in touch with the seller and ask about that.

 

[kb3lms]

Welcome to the Darkroom!

The 23C is a very good unit. I used it in college as well. However, think about the 67C. As mentioned above, the color head is very useful for VC B&W paper. And don't throw out trying some color work - it's not that hard just different.

If the accessories for the $300 setup aren't really what you are after, it sounds like a bit much. +1 for offering $200.00!

 

[FormerAirline]

The 67 is looking better at the moment... and I have thought about doing color... the Autocord has beautiful BEAUTIFUL color rendition.

OK I'm a bit ignorant on the finer nuances of dakroom printing. I've only used something like the 23c with contrast filters, so I'm not sure how it all works with the color enlarger. The kit comes with manuals so I'm sure it tells me well enough.

I have a bunch of Ilford MGIV miltigrade IC RC De Luxe paper. I'm assuming this is VC... Guh! My newbieness in this!

 

[kb3lms]

Yes, that is a nice VC paper. Google on printing vc paper with a color enlarger. There are a number of good references available, especially Ralph Lambrecht (sp?) Also, the box of paper should come with instructions giving you the filter settings. To make a long story short, you adjust the contrast of the paper by dialing in so much magenta and so much yellow filtration.

If you have scanned negatives into your computer and then edited, you can look at it this way, you set the white point with your exposure and use the contrast to set a meaningful black point. (Think levels and curves) There is more to it than that, but that's the short story. Being back into it only a few weeks myself and never having used VC paper anyway (the college paper only ever had Grade 2 paper in the 1980s), I had to get it in those terms to figure out what I was doing.

The advantage of using a dichroic head is that you get not only the standard grades, you can get anything in between.

You will quickly find out that nobody should be allowed to have this much fun!

 

[kb3lms]

Also, get yourself a copy of "The Print" by Ansel Adams. I just finished reading it. That starts to help clarify lots of things. Ansel says more in one paragraph than many writers say in a whole chapter.

Actually, just get the whole series if you don't have it - very worthwhile.

 

[FormerAirline]

I think I may bite on the 67. It's only $150 anyway. There was no mention of the working condition of any of this, that just struck me.
Any recommendations on how I can black out my bathroom? There is a window.

 

[hpulley]

Cardboard and black tape can do a window, the right tape is reusable and won't leave any marks so just put the cardboard away when not in use.

 

[michaelbsc]

Cardboard and black tape can do a window, the right tape is reusable and won't leave any marks so just put the cardboard away when not in use.

Look for Gaffers tape at photo houses. It's designed for exactly this, completely light tight, and leaves no residue.

 

[jordanstarr]

...Just make sure the paper and chemicals actually work. I recently bought $200 worth of paper off a guy who claimed to be the "real deal" and it's all been bogus so far. He won't even refund my money even though he owns a business. You'll want to make 100% sure on this.

 

[MattKing]

I think I may bite on the 67. It's only $150 anyway. There was no mention of the working condition of any of this, that just struck me.
Any recommendations on how I can black out my bathroom? There is a window.

As far as working condition of the 67C is concerned ...

Look for signs of obvious physical damage - big dents, clearly twisted parts. These are rugged, but anything can happen.

Check that the focus works smoothly and, that the lens stage moves up and down smoothly from tight to the carrier to full extension. If it is a bit sticky, but otherwise moves well, it probably just needs to have the lubricant cleaned and replaced (a simple job).

Check that the elevation control on the side of the column locks positively and releases easily. When it releases, it should be easy to raise and lower the head and carriage, and it should appear to remain aligned as you do.

The lever that raises the head to allow access to the negative carrier should do so positively, and hold the head sufficiently above the negative carrier to permit easy access to the carrier.

The cover for the dichroic head comes off easily to give access to the bulb and the mixing box. The bolts are at the back. Check inside for any signs of damage and to see if there is a halogen bulb installed, and if the diffusion chamber is there.

If there is no bulb, or if it has expired, they are reasonably easy to obtain on the internet but they aren't necessarily easy to find at your local store. They need to be handled carefully though - fingerprints will shorten their life. I'd recommend having at least two spares on hand.

There are two mixing boxes available for the dichroic head. The larger, 6x7 model can be used with all negatives. The 35mm mixing box can only be used with 35mm and smaller negatives - it gives shorter exposure times. You need the 6x7 mixing box, whereas the 35mm box is a nice accessory. They tend to be marked with the size, but you can tell which one you have by just pulling it out and looking at the size of the opening on the bottom.

Here is an eBay listing for a 35mm mixing box:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/6744-35mm-Mixing...190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item518a449ffe

That eBay seller (KHB) is a good, comprehensive source for parts and accessories and manuals and knowledge. They are not, however, inexpensive.

The cord from the head plugs into the power supply. The power supply plugs into the timer. The timer plugs into the wall.

Assuming the bulb is okay, you can determine if the power supply is okay by turning it on and checking that it lights up. If it does, try adjusting the dials for each of the dichroic filters - magenta should make the light more or less magenta, yellow should make the light more or less yellow, and cyan should ... well you can guess . If you don't see any change, flip the white light lever on the side, which one uses for focusing.

Hope this helps.

 

[2F/2F]

You could do better with price if you were a bit more patient, but it still is not bad, considering what they cost new (and the lenses too)!

You do want to make sure that you are getting good lenses from a good brand, and that they are fungus free. A few different negative carriers would also sweeten the deal, and an extra lens board for the extra lens would make things more convenient.

If the enlarger looks beat in any way, I would move on. Another will come your way in better condition. There are so many out there in good condition for peanuts that I would never bother with a raggedy one unless it was special or I just needed to cannibalize it for parts.

A color head will let you print both b/w and color. There's not much reason not to go for a good deal just because it has a color head. In fact, many people prefer color heads for printing b/w. 1) They make it so you do not have to use graded filters, and 2) they are almost always diffusion heads, which many prefer for various reasons. The larger the format of film, the less difference I see between condenser and diffusion heads. I pretty much insist on using a condenser head for most of my 35mm b/w prints, as I shoot a lot of stuff on 35mm that I like to print very contrasty with sharp grain. (Often the 5 filter is not enough contrast for the prints I want, and a diffusion head would lower the contrast, and the sharpness of the grain, even more.) For larger formats, or 35mm color, I don't see enough of a difference in sharpness to bother insisting on anything, and the things are shoot with larger formats are things that I usually print in a more "standard" way.

 

[tkamiya]

I don't know anything about Beseler 23 as I have never used one. But, I can tell you this much. I got two of my enlargers (Omega 2 and II) for nearly nothing. BUT, all the rest have easily cost me 300 dollars and quite possibly a lot more. Larger expenses have been timers, paper safe, lenses, etc, but all those little things, like storage bottles, tongs, thermometers, trays, filters, etc, etc, etc - when added all up, I think I was spending 100 dollars + each time from Adorama. Many of the stuff were bought used here on APUG also.

Now I'm thinking how much I've spent so far, I'm getting sick.... umph....

Kidding aside, if the offer is truly "the whole darkroom setup", $300 isn't too much at all. You can, of course, bargain with the seller and say - start at $250. It's not like he has lots of buyers banging at his door.

 

[FormerAirline]

OK, things kind of happened fast. I spoke with the man selling the enlarger and he seemed nice enough so I went on over. Everything looked great so I bought it. One thing though - before I came he said the enlarger had a different lens on it, not the Vivitar, which was indeed a 75mm and was still included. He didn't remember the name of it, but he said it was a good one. It turned out to be a Schneider-Kreuznach Componon-S 2.8/50. I'm thinking that's pretty good.

As an added bonus he even put a yellow dot on the yellow knob.

I'll play around with it tomorrow.

 

[kb3lms]

The Schneider ought to be a good lens. Sounds like you got a nice setup. Good luck with it!

BTW, if you want to purchase some inexpensive paper to play with, the Adorama house brand is about half the price of Ilford MGIV and seems pretty decent. It's not the same thing, of course, but it is very usable.

 

[MattKing]

OK, things kind of happened fast. I spoke with the man selling the enlarger and he seemed nice enough so I went on over. Everything looked great so I bought it. One thing though - before I came he said the enlarger had a different lens on it, not the Vivitar, which was indeed a 75mm and was still included. He didn't remember the name of it, but he said it was a good one. It turned out to be a Schneider-Kreuznach Componon-S 2.8/50. I'm thinking that's pretty good.

As an added bonus he even put a yellow dot on the yellow knob.

I'll play around with it tomorrow.

The inclusion of that lens makes this a good deal (assuming that everything is working well).

Here is a useful link with some manuals - not exactly the same model as your new enlarger, but the 67CS manual features essentially the same dichroic head:

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/manuals.html

 

[FormerAirline]

All the original manuals are there, so that's no problem. I connected the timer with the safelight and the enlarger, played with the colorhead knobs, inspected the lens (it's very clean as far as I can tell), and checked out the easel (it's one of the most robust I've ever seen). Everything looks great so far. What shall I use to develop papers though? I have some D67, Rodinal and some HC110. Should I use something different?