Starting C-41

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

Okay, my search terms aren't getting me my answer.

I have just got all my C-41 chemicals but I'm a bit confused so I'm going to write this out and hopefully have you all correct my processes before I screw up.

I have the Trebla TL-50 FilmPAC and the separate starter. The volumes in the FilmPac are supposed to be proportional but the bottles don't indicate their actual volumes so my original thought that I would mix replenisher as I go seems unworkable now.

It looks like I'm supposed to mix up the FilmPAC replenisher concentrate into a full ten liters of developer replenisher, what I will call "stock", all in one go. This stock would then be stored.

Then to make the first batch of working developer I just add the right amounts of my replenisher stock, with my starter concentrate, and water to fill my working solution storage bottle, say 1.5 liters.

For me 1.5 liters would be enough to fill any one of my small tanks and still have enough to spill a few drops.

From this working solution bottle I could pour 300ml of the working developer into my single reel tank. (950ml for my 4 reel tank)

While the working solution is in the developement tank doing it's thing to the film I could be adding the right amount of replenisher to my working solution storage, in this case 21ml. (84ml for 4 reels)

When the timer tells me the film is done I'd then dump the used working solution back into the working solution bottle until full and dispose of the extra 21ml of used solution. (84ml for 4 reels)

Here's my confusion/question though. Do I add more starter or was that a one shot forever thing?

glbeas · Jun 19, 2009

First off what kind of volume are you doing? The developer will degrade rather quickly from oxidation after mixing the "replenisher" and you will either waste a bunch of developer or ruin some film with weak chemicals or both. Contact the manufacturer if possible to find out the proper ratios and find an inert gas source to purge the bottles of air before resealing them to prevent oxidation.

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

Hi Gary,

Doing a few rolls a week and was hoping to mix as I go but...

Okay, well let me ask this, is there data on the shelf life of 1/2 full bottles of concentrates?

The only shelf life info I've found is for stock solution.

glbeas · Jun 19, 2009

The shelf life is somewhat longer but it will fail pretty quick unless you flush the air from the bottles.

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

I wonder if anyone has tried the Mylar water bags, like in a box of wine.

Jerry Thirsty · Jun 19, 2009

I mix up small quantities of the developer, fix and stabilizer straight from the concentrates as I need them. For example, according to my notes the proportions for 1/3 liter are:

Developer:
- 266ml water
- 21.3ml Part A
- 3.5ml Part B
- 4.9ml Part C
Stir, then add
- 8.3ml starter

Fix:
- 166.6ml water
- 166.6ml fix

Stabilizer:
- 330ml water
- 3.3ml stabilizer

I dump these after one use.

Since the bleach is not prone to going bad, I just mix 1 liter of it and then replenish at 5ml per roll of 24 exposures (or equivalent).

My process is
1) Warmup dry 6:00 at 38 deg C
2) Develop 3:15 at 37.8 +/-0.15
3) Bleach 1:00 at 38 +/-3
4) Fix 2:00 at 38+/-3
5) Wash 2:00 at 38 +/-3
6) Stabilize 2:00 or so at 32-40 (in a separate dish, not in the developing tank)

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

Jerry Thirsty said:
I mix up small quantities of the developer, fix and stabilizer straight from the concentrates as I need them.

Now we are cooking!

Are you using the same kit?

How long do your concentrates last?

stradibarrius · Jun 19, 2009

I am trying to find a "kit" that have all the different chemicals for
c-41 or a list of the chemicals needed that I can by separately.

Gary could you give the list of the chemicals that you showed me when I came over to your darkroom.

Jerry Thirsty · Jun 19, 2009

markbarendt said:
Now we are cooking!

Are you using the same kit?

How long do your concentrates last?

Yes, I'm using the Trebla Filmpac. I don't know how long they last; I've only been using it for about 6 months. So far so good.

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

Jerry Thirsty said:
about 6 months. So far so good.

That's very liveable.

Two more questions and I think I'm done.

Are you using the bottles it all came in?

Are you using anything to displace the air?

Thanks for the input Jerry!

Jerry Thirsty · Jun 19, 2009

I have left the concentrates in the original bottles and squeezed the air out as best I can. I did just get some Dust-off type compressed gas to fill them up with but haven't yet (the only ingredient I can find listed on the can is difluoroethane). I have 5 rolls I mean to develop sometime this weekend; if the stuff has gone bad I'll make sure you hear about it.

Jerry Thirsty · Jun 19, 2009

Oh, and by the way, with the amounts of working solutions I'm using one-shot, I'm not going to get anywhere near the stated capacity of 475 rolls of 24 exp. Probably more like 100 rolls. But since I only shoot maybe 70 rolls or so a year, I'm not expecting to be able to use it all before it becomes unreliable.

markbarendt · Jun 19, 2009

I picked up some of the dust off too. Like you yet to try it.

glbeas · Jun 19, 2009

stradibarrius said:
I am trying to find a "kit" that have all the different chemicals for
c-41 or a list of the chemicals needed that I can by separately.

Gary could you give the list of the chemicals that you showed me when I came over to your darkroom.

Go to the Adorama website and look for c-41 kits. The LORR kits are for low use like we do. The bleach and fix can be any size convenient and Adorama can ship them.

stradibarrius · Jun 20, 2009

Does the LORR come complete with everything needed?

markbarendt · Jun 20, 2009

stradibarrius said:
Does the LORR come complete with everything needed?

Hi Barry,

This is where I got chemicals (the ones we are talking about in this post) and they were quite helpful. http://www.pakor.com

They are a mini-lab supply so the only thing you need to be careful of is making sure they know what you want or you may get just the developer rather than the whole kit.

I almost ended up with 6 bottles of only the LORR developer that would make 10 liters each (enough to develop 1800 36 exposure rolls) and none of the other chems. Once we got on the same page all was cool.

The kit was a special order and took about a week for them to get for me.

The part number on my packing slip is 444-2648 (~$70-75 as I remember) for the kit and 444-2595 (~$3) for the starter.

Here's another link http://www.minilab.com/productdetail.asp_Q_catID_E_83_A_subCatID_E_74_A_productID_E_76_A_skuID_E_678
http://www.minilab.com/productdetail.asp_Q_catID_E_83_A_subCatID_E_74_A_productID_E_76_A_skuID_E_674

These guys actually list it on the site so they may have it in stock, still you should askto make sure it's the whole kit.

glbeas · Jun 20, 2009

stradibarrius said:
Does the LORR come complete with everything needed?

Mikes advice is a big help, but if you go the Adorama route or most any other, the LORR kit is just the color developer, the fix and bleach are purchased separately just like you normally do with B&W chemicals.

fotch · Jun 21, 2009

I found this link at the Kodak site and I think it is new, or at least new for me.
It shows what is available for my use in a Jobo and clears up on the confusion of what to buy.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...cts/chemicals/flexicolor1.jhtml?pq-path=12549

Jerry Thirsty · Jun 22, 2009

I developed the five rolls I had ready and tonight cut and sleeved them. Obviously I can't tell a lot just by eyeballing the negatives, but they look pretty normal to me. So it would appear that the Filmpac concentrates will last in their original packaging for at least 6 months without any special care. But I did spray dust-off into the bottles this time; hopefully it will help.

The only thing I wasn't happy about was that there were faint streaks of dried stabilizer left on a couple of the rolls. I don't like to squeegee, and I don't like getting stabilizer on my fingers. Anybody tried the finger-wiping technique with nitrile gloves on? Will the rubber wreck my negs?

mts · Jun 22, 2009

Use clean photo sponges that are dampened with stabilizer or distilled water. In my experience you have to squeegee the film one pass after hanging it to dry.

Starting C-41

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