Starting a darkroom in Australia

[Green_Blue]

Yeah no numbers and no images on that part of the roll. The film was neopan 400 and I developed it for 11 minutes in rodinal 1:50, the agitation I used was to use the spinner which was recommended to me by the previous owner of the tank. I did 30 seconds constant agitation with inversions at the start and then every minute for 10 seconds I used the spinner. I guess I must have been a bit conservative with the spinning because I have read that too much agitation can cause quite a lot of grain when using rodinal.

Anyway I developed a different roll of tri-x and that turned out great probably because I ditched the spinning method and did normal tank inversions instead. So I think problem solved! The only other issue I have noticed is that on some of the rolls there are dark blotches on the film. I guess these are drying marks?

 

[tomalophicon]

Odd, I've always been a spinner not a swinger, and have had no problems.

 

[polyglot]

Yeah, the spinner is used mostly at the start to dislodge any bubbles, but I find that one drop of photoflo in the tank does that better. Just stick with the inversions. If you're spinning, I think you need to spin really hard to get sufficient fresh developer to the middle parts of the roll - just think of the physics of it, there's nothing forcing the exhausted developer out of the middle. With inversions, you have air bubbles rushing through the whole roll, turning the developer over completely.

These dark blotches, are they in the silver layer or on the film surface? If the latter and they look like waterdrops, they could be drying marks. If they're denser regions in the silver, it's likely you have poorly-mixed developer but I've never seen that with Rodinal, only powder developers like D76.

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

I would assume that no development in the middle must mean that the film was not loaded onto the reel properly in that part. Did you notice the reel unroll unevenly after development?

 

[Green_Blue]

I've just had another look at the film and I think the blotches are waterdrops. I'm not too sure if I loaded the film on properly but it seemed to unreel fine at the end. Although I guess these being my first ever developed rolls problems are to be expected and I do have some usable negatives.

One more question though, I know that stop bath and fixer can be reused and that I can tell the stop has been used up when the colour changes but how do I tell if the fixer has been all used up? Is there just a roll of thumb that you can use fixer for x amount of times?

 

[polyglot]

If using rapid fixer, the rated capacity is 20 rolls per litre of working solution assuming 1+4 dilution from concentrate. Best way to check is to measure the clearing time of a film scrap and fix for twice that long at least. Once the measured clearing time doubles compared to fresh fixer, that batch of fixer is exhausted.

 

[Green_Blue]

So I still haven't managed to completely build the darkroom yet mainly because I've realised that the shed outside is bloody freezing at night! However I have managed to develop a couple more rolls and today I tried stand development with rodinal 1:100 for 1 hour. As I don't have a scanner I borrowed my dad's d90 and macro lens and then in aperture I inverted using a preset I found on the internet and then just used the auto-enhance adjustment (clearly I have no idea with post-processing!).

Anyway here is a result from Centre Place, Melbourne after a tiny bit of cropping due to the fact I couldn't cut a perfect rectangle to act as a film holder.

Here is a link to a blog with my first experiments, the most recent one is the stand development.

http://simplyineffable.tumblr.com/

I think my main question is if I have made the image look too 'digital' because my negatives came out quite flat (which is apparently meant to happen in stand development) I did up the contrast quite a bit.

 

[tomalophicon]

I don't know what you mean about too digital, but theat second photo looks awesome.

 

[Andrew K]

Hi

sorry to come in a bit late, but can I make a couple of suggestions?

Don't stand develop - it can easily lead to uneven development and/or flat negatives. Try agitating for 1 minute - 1 inversion every 10 seconds. Bang the tank at the end of the first minute on the table to dislodge any air bubbles. Then agitate 2-3 inversions every minute - this should up your contrast, and give even processing.

You can re-use your stop and fixer. If the stop is indicator stop it will change color when exhausted. If it's not then ditch it when you ditch your fixer. As Ploygot suggested mix up 1 liter of fix, and then fix the recommended number of films and ditch the fix. Same goes for stop - mix 1 liter and then ditch when needed.

Don't mix less, because if you mix up enough for 300ml you can kill the fix in 3-4 films, as the silver build up in the fixer will mean that when you are fixing a film it will still clear, but rather than removing all the unexposed silver it will start to add some back to your negatives. The film will look fixed, but even with correct washing it will fade/contaminate in storage (it's happened to me, and I've been processing film for 30 years..)

Best advice I was ever given is not to skimp on chemistry - it's the cheapest part of the whole process, and you don't want to ruin your photography just because you wanted to save $1 on some chemistry.

Also - do you have a thermometer? I was in my local chemist last week and they had some small digital thermometers on the counter for $4.95 each..You need to keep all chemicals around 20C (plus the wash if you can - if not you can decrease the wash temp slowly to avoid any chance of retculating the film) to get consistant results.

Regarding enlarger lenses - I would throw the Astron in the bin and get a decent lens (I use one once - my first enlarger was a Durst F30 with a Astron lens. I did some prints, but they were no where near as sharp as the prints I did at school. I kept the enlarger for a while, but got a Nikkor lens like the one on the school's enlarger) .

The Astron was always a cheap 3 element lens that came from a variety of manufacturers (it was distributed by R Gunz - Astron was their "own" brand). They are easy to fix (my camera technician hat is now on) by unscrewing the rear element - this should get you to the surfaces with the fungus on them - wipe them with soapy water, then clean them with a cloth and they should be fine..

I'd suggest looking for a good second hand lens - a cheap one like a f4.5 Minolta 50mm will set you back maybe $20, and they are sharp. I remember a guy I worked with bought one 25 years ago, and I tested it in the work darkroom (I was working for a photographer as a b&W printer) - in a 12 X 16 print you couldn't see the difference between it and a f2.8 Minolta Rokkor or a f2.8 EL Nikkor - both the sharpest 50mm enlarger lenses I've used. If you are looking for a lens let me know -I should have a decent spare lens around the place you can buy cheap...

And no - I don't think the images look too digital. Done correctly you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between a print from a good scan and a print from a enlarger. The trick is learing how to do a good scan...or learning to make a good print...which in many ways is easier of the two..

 

[Andrew K]

Note to self - read all posts thoroughly before commenting....

POLYGOT offered you a f2.8/50mm Rodagon (or similar) for $30. Grab it - it's a bargain....I paid a couple of hundred for the one I had

 

[Green_Blue]

So just an update. I haven't gotten around to setting up a darkroom at home because after looking at the costs for getting the additional chemicals and making the room dark proof, as well as finding an easel and paper it just hasn't become cost-effective. Particularly as I will be going overseas from sep-feb for uni exchange I've had to start budgeting, and I don't think I would be able to use up all the chemicals before they expire.

I've been thinking instead I should find a darkroom to hire/ a darkroom course/ maybe a helpful apuger wouldn't mind showing me the ropes?

Having just decided to take this course of action I haven't fully researched darkroom hire but besides the melbourne camera club are there any other recommended places, or are they the best.

Oh and I thought I would attach some images that I developed on the weekend. It's Ilford hp5+ at box speed. The photographs aren't amazing but I'm happy with the development. I don't have an scanner so I used my Dad's d90 and macro lens, inverted it in photoshop and moved the curves a bit.

 

[SMBooth]

MCC is certianly cheap at $5.00 a go. You just need to join the club (http://www.melbournephoto.org.au/) . Look here too http://silvermine.org.au/darkroom/

 

[tomalophicon]

Green blue, it's very hard to tell with the method of digitisation, but if they were my negs I'd increase development time. They seem lowish in contrast.

 

[NDP_2010]

You don't need to be that light proof, just develop and print at night

 

[tomalophicon]

You don't need to be that light proof, just develop and print at night

Yes, this is a problem for me. I can't print when the F***ING neighbours have their porch light on!

 

[Green_Blue]

Ok, I've decided that I will try and go through with actually printing, first off starting with printing at night and then eventually building a permanent darkroom. I've been eyeing off an ebay auction which is listing an lpl c7700 enlarger + trays + lights +easel, the problem is that I already have an enlarger but I don't have trays/safelight/ or an easel. I can probably buy the 3 tray brand new from vanbar for around $20 so is it possible to live without a safelight (e.g. just use the enlarger with the red safelight to illuminate the room a bit) and is an easel necessary for holding the paper flat or is it mainly for framing purposes? Alternatively I guess there might be a cheap option for trays like getting some plastic storage containers from a homeware store and I hope they would have tongs aswell.

Finally the only other thing I need to get is a paper developer and some paper, what is a classic combination for the beginner kinda similar to how kodak tri-x and d76 is meant to be a traditional combo. However I have read that paper developers have a subtle impact at best and that ilford rc papers are decent to start off with; is this the right track?

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[polyglot]

Ilford Multigrade and some RC paper (e.g. Ilford Pearl) is probably the cheapest+easiest way to start out and you can't really go much wrong with it. There are cheaper or better options, but this is a pretty classic combination, readily available anywhere in Australia, they will both keep very well and not have any unusual pitfalls for beginners.

 

[Andrew K]

I can probably buy the 3 tray brand new from vanbar for around $20 so is it possible to live without a safelight (e.g. just use the enlarger with the red safelight to illuminate the room a bit) and is an easel necessary for holding the paper flat or is it mainly for framing purposes?

You can get away without proper trays, but don't get trays with a flat bottom, as suction can cause the paper to stick to the bottom of the tray.

You rally do need a safelight - it makes printing far easier. You can pick up a cheap second hand safelight filter somewhere for a few $$ (or PM me - I probably have something floating around).

Easel - you can get away without one, as RC paper sits pretty flat on it's own. When I ran a commercial lab I used to use a large ceramic floor tile which had thick cardboard stuck to 2 edges. I would use a old sheet of paper to focus/compose on. You can do the same with a piece of MDF - either cut the MDF to size and stick some feet on the bottom so it doesn't slide around on the baseboard, or use alarger piece and put some cardboard on the 2 edges. Trace around some old prints with a texta so you have the various print sizes for composition..

 

[benjiboy]

Darkroom work must be even more difficult in The Antipodes because everything is upside down.

 

[polyglot]

Darkroom work must be even more difficult in The Antipodes because everything is upside down.

That's OK; we have claws on our feet so that we can hang like bats. You do need to tape the paper to the easel though

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I find darkroom a lot more fun!

Jeff

 

[Green_Blue]

Printing in the darkroom is amazing fun! Today I bought ilford multigrade and 100 sheets of kentmere vc 10.5x14.8cm and used up around 20 sheets and got 6 or 7 decent prints. I think I will definitely have to try a larger paper size down the track once my photographs actually warrant it. Anyway once again, thanks a lot everyone for the advice; watching my first image appear was magical albeit difficult to see without safelights!

 

[L.J.SILVER]

Darkroom work must be even more difficult in The Antipodes because everything is upside down.

Composing on the ground glass is a cinch though - it's rightside up here.