Starter Curve for an Epson 4000?

[wilsonneal]

I am hoping someone can point me in the direction of, or send to me, a curve I can use as a starting point for digital negatives.

Also, a clarifying question--the curve is used in addition to decisions about what color to print the neg, right? I read about people using specific R and G settings, but I am guessing that that is independent of the curve, which I am thinking is to adjust contrast so that we get a negative with the proper DR for our application? (So if I am understanding right, we get the image as a positive to look as we want on the screen, invert, flip, apply contrast curve and then print using the particular color that yields the best UV block?)

Essentially, before I invest in my own printer, I am planning to use my friend's Epson 4000 printer and try to get a sense of how it's going to be to work with these negatives. (I'm hoping this works really well and I can stop schlepping my 8x10 when I want to do a portrait.)

I am told that the Epson 4000 and the 4800 are pretty much the same. It's got 8 inks--photo black, C, M Y, Matte Black, LC, LM, LGray. Evidently my friend has a RIP called Proofmaster, but we don't have to use that, deferring to the Epson drivers.

I intend to use the negatives for palladium, ideally with a little Na2. As a test image I was planning to create an 11x14 composite of a test grid/step wedge and a few other images to get a sense of how the process would work for me. I would be creating my files in Photoshop CS2.

Any help getting a starter curve?

Many thanks,

Neal

 

[keithwms]

This link should get you started. You want acv files. There some instructions embedded in the folder that you download here... you have to pay attention to the inkset and substrate and so forth. But this will get you in the basic ballpark so you can play around and begin fine tuning.

Dead Link Removed

First thing is too look at the big differences in the curves for Ag versus Pd processes... once you see that and understand how that relates to output, you are on your way.

Please note the related posts over the last day or so though... the optimal curve depends very much on the entire workflow.

 

[wilsonneal]

Thanks Keith. I think I may buy a copy of that book, and it looks like buying the QTR will save me some trouble, too.
Thanks again,
Neal

 

[Ron-san]

Thanks Keith. I think I may buy a copy of that book, and it looks like buying the QTR will save me some trouble, too.
Thanks again,
Neal

If you want to try QTR with the Epson 4000 you might want to start with the QTR profile I use on my own machine (a 4000). I have attached a copy of the profile. This profile is better than the older profiles on the website Keith pointed you to because this newer profile directs the printer to print with all of its inks, not just the K and LK inks. Using all the inks leads to smoother tones in the negative and final print.
This profile will not be perfect for you unless you happen to print under exactly the conditions that I use, but it will get you started. For the record, I use lithium chloropalladite plus ferric oxalate and add 50 microliters of 2% NA2 (contrast agent) per milliliter of palladium. I coat the paper heavily, let it sit until the wet sheen disappears, then blow cold air across it in a room adjusted to about 50% relative humidity until it is dry to the touch (you get richer blacks when there is some humidity left in the coated paper). I expose for 75 units in a Nuarc but any other UV source would work also.
If you want to explore making or altering QTR profiles, you might want to download a free manual available on my website (www.ronreeder.com). Good luck. Ron-san

 

[keithwms]

Thanks Ron, that is helpful.

 

[wilsonneal]

Thanks Ron, that's very helpful. It seems like the bottom line is that I need to spend the money on the QTR to use the curve you've provided, right? If so, that's fine, but just want to make sure that I need the application in order to use this curve?

Your personal palladium process sounds very much like mine.

I see value in buying the book you wrote as I've read the chapter on palladium and think that I want to also read chapter 9.

Thanks for your reply.
Neal

If you want to try QTR with the Epson 4000 you might want to start with the QTR profile I use on my own machine (a 4000). I have attached a copy of the profile. This profile is better than the older profiles on the website Keith pointed you to because this newer profile directs the printer to print with all of its inks, not just the K and LK inks. Using all the inks leads to smoother tones in the negative and final print.
This profile will not be perfect for you unless you happen to print under exactly the conditions that I use, but it will get you started. For the record, I use lithium chloropalladite plus ferric oxalate and add 50 microliters of 2% NA2 (contrast agent) per milliliter of palladium. I coat the paper heavily, let it sit until the wet sheen disappears, then blow cold air across it in a room adjusted to about 50% relative humidity until it is dry to the touch (you get richer blacks when there is some humidity left in the coated paper). I expose for 75 units in a Nuarc but any other UV source would work also.
If you want to explore making or altering QTR profiles, you might want to download a free manual available on my website (www.ronreeder.com). Good luck. Ron-san

 

[Ron-san]

Thanks Ron, that's very helpful. It seems like the bottom line is that I need to spend the money on the QTR to use the curve you've provided, right? If so, that's fine, but just want to make sure that I need the application in order to use this curve?

Your personal palladium process sounds very much like mine.

I see value in buying the book you wrote as I've read the chapter on palladium and think that I want to also read chapter 9.

Thanks for your reply.
Neal

Neal-- Yes, in order to use any QTR profile you will need to spend $50 and download the latest version of QTR from Roy's website, then install it on your printer. There is also a bit of a learning curve to use QTR (for most people), but hey, nothing is without some pain?? Cheers, Ron-san

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I have a 4000, and it is terrible with digital negatives. I don't recommend it. Pinholes galore and vertical banding.

Others have had better luck. But, not me.

The trouble is, these printers are guaranteed for printing on paper, not on transparent media. My 4000 prints fine on paper, so even if I had a warrantee, I would have no recourse to Epson.

Get the 3800. Many people commend the 3800 for the excellent digital negatives that it produces. Or, wait a little before purchasing to see how the new crop of Epson printers do with vertical banding.