Start discourse to help me decide on a camera. Please.

[Samuel Woods]

So the two cameras that I'm split between are the first gen. Pentax 67 and a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder (any model). I currently own a Mamiya RB67 and a Canon AE-1.

First, I'll talk about the Pentax. I am fond of this camera because of its ergonomics, similar to my AE-1. The Mamiya is my first MF camera, and when I'm not using a tripod it can be a little cumbersome to hold. The root of me looking into the Pentax is that its ergonomics are more familiar than the RB since it basically operates like a large AE-1, but it still has the same aspect ratio as the RB. Another positive is that the Pentax goes up to 1/1000 sec, while the RB goes up to 1/400. The Pentax also sometimes comes with the TTL light meter, a very helpful tool. Also, if I owned the Pentax, I'd be more comfortable with selling my Mamiya in the future to aid in whatever financial needs I have, due to my preference of SLRs. On the flip-side, the Pentax can be expensive, generally more expensive than the Fuji, which decreases my chances of ever even owning one.

Next, the Fuji. I've owned a 35mm rangefinder before, and didn't like shooting from it much because it was a pain to focus because the patch and viewfinder was so small (It was an early Canon Leica copy). However, it seems as if the viewfinder on the Fuji is larger and easier to look through, so that might alleviate my fears of owning another rangefinder. The second positive of the Fuji is that it is lighter than the RB and Pentax. Although I don't struggle with the weight of my RB so much, it'd still be nice to also own a lighter, more portable camera. The next positive is the negative size. I find the Fuji more appealing than the Pentax because of its larger negative. It'd be nice to have a variety of medium format ratios. A negative of the Fuji is that it only works up to 1/500 of a second, similar to the RB's 1/400. Another negative is that I do have a preference of SLR over RF, but I'm open to owning a RF...… if I actually like it. The final negative of the Fuji is the absence of a light meter. I'm not super interested in buying a model with one of the lenses with a built-in light meter. I do have a light meter on my phone and an old handheld meter that I never use. However, it can be a pain to be using the Fuji (which I purchased with the intent of it being lighter and more of an every-day carry camera, used for quicker shots similar to how I use my AE-1), and have to pull out my phone or the handheld light meter.

P.S. has anyone bought from Japanese stores on eBay? If so, how much are the customs/international fees, if any?

Thanks for reading this book.

 

[taotao]

If I were you I would probably go for the Pentax 67 if I didn't already own a Mamiya RB. The Fuji rangefinder medium format cameras are great, but they require a great deal of care and since they're rangefinders, its best to get them properly calibrated by a professional, which would lead to a pretty high maintenance cost. Focusing on the Fuji should be easier than on the Canon you owned before, and the 6x9 aspect ratio should open up a lot more framing opportunities. That said, the Pentax is still a great handheld SLR, but if I were to buy it, I would definitely also get the wooden handle bar as well.

In terms of buying from Japanese stores on eBay, all custom prices are handled by eBay, or at least in Australia they do. Here, there's a 10% import tax on everything under $1000, and eBay just slaps that onto the final buying price.

 

[bdial]

The Fuji's rangefinder is worlds apart from your old Canon, so you may not want to make that a major part of your decision making. IMHO, the top shutter speed isn't a major limitation for most work, an exception might be if you're planning to do a lot of photos that require stopping motion. None of my big cameras can go beyond 1/500, whereas a couple of my 35's can do 1/2000, and I've never used the capability, and I'm rarely shooting at 1/500 on the MF cameras. YMMV though.

I'll throw in another wrinkle, 6x7 negative carriers are more common than 6x9 carriers if you do your own darkroom printing, though that's a fixable problem if you have a 6x7 carrier to mod. If you like the 35mm aspect ratio, then 6x9 is just about the same.
Having just "invested" in a CF tripod, I would probably lean toward what's lighter, but I'm an old fart.

 

[campy51]

I have never owned a Pentax but I did have a Fuji GW690II and I liked it but sold it because I got a Mamiya 7 which I sold to fund other cameras which I won't go into. If I find another Fuji at a price I want to pay I would get another. Like most I also have digital and if and when I travel I would always take my digital but I doubt I would take my hasselblad but may take a Rolleiflex but I would most likely take a Fuji for easier focusing than a Rolleiflex. BTW the Mamiya 7 was best and regret selling.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Can you say something about what kind of shooting you plan to do with this new-to-you camera?

The Fuji does have a larger viewfinder than an early Canon LTM camera. The focus patch is actually a bit small, smaller proportionally than on most 35mm rangefinders I think. Some people get along well with projected frameline cameras, but I've finally decided that they just aren't my thing. I work better with a 'hard edge' tunnel viewfinder like an SLR (or TLR). I now use a Kodak Medalist for my 6x9 handheld (and tripod work); it has a decent viewfinder and I usually use it for 'scenic' work, not street work although I have used it for that at times. The Fuji is much faster and more nimble than most other 6x9 cameras.

Hopefully a user of the Pentax 67 models will discuss how it really works for the kind of shooting you want to do, once you say something about this. It's a great camera with great lenses. Repairs and such are not readily available.

Although the 6x9 negative is nice, I would decide based on your preferred proportions, not overall square inches. If you are always going to crop to 2:3, sure, get a 6x9. There are Fujis in 6x7 and 6x8, by the way GW670 or GW680.

 

[guangong]

Shape alone does not mean that the Pentax 67 is like your 35mm SLR. The Pentax is much, much heavier by itself and tadding glass that can cover 67 makes it heavier still. Before jumping, I would handle one first at a camera show, borrow, or rent. I looked at one when first appeared on market and found it awkward compared to my Hasselblad 1000F.
Fuji 6x9 is far removed from your Canon. I have a Medalist, but it’s not my everyday shooter. Wonderful for what it was designed for...landscapes (well, actually enemy shore installations). But you like the format, Fuji is a good choice.
If you find Mamiya unwieldy, try a Hasselblad. Will fit your hand like a glove.
If no need for interchangeable lenses, Fuji folder GF670 or Makina 67.

 

[voceumana]

First, and most importantly, choice of camera is a very personal decision. For example, my vision is such that for me, the Pentax 67 is much easier to focus than the RB67 or the Bronica GS-1 (all with their respective prism finders). I also find the Pentax feels more right--pressing the body against my face works better for me than the RB67 or GS-1 because of the shape of the camera. (I own a Pentax 67II, RB67, GS-1, and Fuji GW690III.)

Some thoughts on your decision:

1. I wouldn't worry about the higher shutter speed--the slower lenses of medium format make it less important.

2. If you ever shoot flash, the sync speed of the Pentax is very slow, the Fuji is at any shutter speed.

3. The Fuji and Pentax handling is very similar. Both are easy to focus. The Fuji is lighter than the Pentax, though.

4. I always use a separate light meter, so that's not an influence for me.

5. You don't identify your location, but I am in the USA and have not had to pay duty on any used camera purchases from Japan. Shipping is what it says it costs in the advertisements. Delivery time can be a little slow because of USPS clearing time at the various customs locations in the US.

Neither of those cameras is a bad choice, and both are readily resold.

 

[narsuitus]

So the two cameras that I'm split between are the first gen. Pentax 67 and a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder (any model). I currently own a Mamiya RB67 and a Canon AE-1.

The first professional quality medium format cameras I used were the Yashicamat and the Mamiya TLR cameras. I used them for shooting weddings. I did not like medium format SLR for weddings because they were too load for my tastes.

When I started shooting fewer weddings and more portraits and product shots, I sold my TLR cameras for the Mamiya RB67 and Fuji medium format rangefinders. One feature I like about both cameras and my Mamiya TLR is that they flash sync at all shutter speeds.

I shoot Leica and Contax rangefinders and love the way they handle. I also like the way my Fuji rangefinders handle. The Fuji rangefinders were my second choice for portable medium format cameras. The Mamiya 7 was my first choice but it was out of my price range.

I have never used the Pentax 67 but loved the Pentax Spotmatic 35mm SLRs I have used. If I owned an RB67 and a 35mm film camera and wanted a medium format film camera that was more portable, I would get a Pentax 645.


Medium Format Kit by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[Sirius Glass]

A different point of view: Rent, try or buy a Hasselblad Series V and shoot square. Sure the equipment is a little pricey so you will have to wait longer between buying lenses, but you will never buy another camera, your eyes will not rove for another camera and you will keep and use the equipment the rest of your life. It is more than a camera, it is a system.

I like to travel with the 50mm, 80mm and 250mm lenses. For narrow streets for places like the Greek Islands I like the Hasseblad 903 SWC, the 50mm lens, the 80mm lens.

 

[eli griggs]

The Hasselblad camera itself is quite light, and with an 80mm, and A12 back, I think you might find it much easier to manage, especially if you can make use of the Left Hand Grip design.

I do no believe lenses for the Hasselblad will be out of line with what the Pentax lenses sell for, nor any heavier.

The Fuji is an entirely different animal, and, if you enjoy the SLR type vision and choices, I would discount it as an option right away.

Just as most of us do no go about with our largest lens on our SLR cameras, the 80 mm, or perhaps the 150mm will likely live on your Hasselblad, and those two and the 50mm make up the 'Trinity' of the Hasselblad "V" System.

Do no be short sighted when it comes to this investment of your treasure, buy what you'll actually use and can live with, for many years to come.

There's much more to the Hasselblad than the Name, and that's the real reason so many of us use them, often as main cameras, for our work/fun.

IMO,
Eli

 

[eli griggs]

One last thing, or two; if you are worried about shooting square, do no be, the small difference in cropping a 6x6cm frame in the enlarger down to the same ratio as the 6x7 Pentax, will likely no be an issue, unless you're doing enormous prints and, you'll still have that extra cm to move side to side, up or down, if you feel your original vision should have been more, one side or the other.

Just make a mask with the excess film area marked off, for your viewfinder, to stay in your comfort zone'.

Best of all, you do no have to do yoga with your camera and tripod to turn it on it's side, unless you buy a Hasselblad 4.5 x 6cm back or some such nor worry that a on-its-side mount on the tripod will go off the Vertical with a large lens attached, as the Hasselblad sits on top the tripod, where it belongs, no its side.

Lastly, you have a choice of viewfinders, the Hasselblads accept prism and waist level viewfinders, so you can use the SLR, with for example, with a 45 degree 'finder, or other.

I would no bother at the expense of a built in meter, as you'll do your best work at Sunny 16, or with a hand held meter and flash syncs at all speeds.

I hope this helps.

 

[Finn lyle]

I haven't owned a Fuji so this is a somewhat biased opinion I suppose, but the Pentax 6x7 is a joy to use. It is VERY heavy which makes carrying it with a neck strap to be somewhat burdensome, but the mass of the camera adds to handheld stability. 1/30th of a second gives me sharp shots with the normal 105mm lens. The glass available for the system is also outstanding, both the range of focal lengths and quality of the glass were major factors in my purchase. Most lenses can be had for a relatively small amount of money and are definitely worth it, there's a lens for landscapes, portraits, macro... even a fish-eye! Another plus is that you get 10 exposures on 6x7 vs. 8 for 6x9. Minor but sometimes the last shot can be worth it. But again, it depends on your usage. The p67 is not cheap to repair should something break, and will probably require a CLA and film transport overhaul at some point if it hasn't gotten one yet.
Best of luck in your search!

 

[Maris]

I have a Mamiya RB67 system and a Fuji GSW680 rangefinder camera. Had a Pentax 67 long ago but sold it off. Biassed opinion: the best most versatile, most ergonomic MF camera ever made is the RB67. Why?
Revolving back does horizontals and verticals without turning the camera ... most ergonomic!
Close bellows focusing with all lenses.
Flash synch at all speeds, all lenses.
Best mirror shake damping of any MF SLR.
Interchangeable backs in 645, 67, and 68 formats.
Rectangular formats enlarge to fit photographic paper without wasteful cropping.
Interchangeable finders ... and so on ...

In principle one does not gain the secure advantages of a MF SLR, big highly detailed negatives on fine grained film, by hand holding the camera and accepting an unknown percentage will be ruined by subtle camera shake. Fast shutter speeds are irrelevant. These cameras should go on a tripod to justify the effort invested in carrying them.

But I do hand hold a MF camera and it is the Fuji GSW680 loaded with Ilford Delta 3200 to keep shutter speeds up. Downside is non-interchangeable lens and non fine grain results ... limited enlargement capability. It's convenient for a walk-around camera but pre-planned serious work calls for the Mamiya RB67.

 

[narsuitus]

@Maris ^^^

Nice write-up !

I am saving it for future reference.

 

[Huss]

The beauty of a Fuji GW690 is that it is a multi format camera.
In that one glorious slice of 6x9 goodness, you also have 6x8, 6x7, 6x6, 6x4.5...
And let's not forget 2.5x9 pano.

A 6x6 camera? Well, you've got 6x6 and 6x4.5.
The only time that is acceptable is if it is a Rolleiflex. Cuz, well, Rolleiflex.

 

[Cholentpot]

I wanted a 6x7 or 6x9 rangefinder but the prices didn't want me.

I got a Century Graphic with a 6x9 back instead. And now I've spent enough on parts, CLA and other stuff that maybe I should have gone with a Fuji.

Na. Too normal.

 

[guangong]

A different point of view: Rent, try or buy a Hasselblad Series V and shoot square. Sure the equipment is a little pricey so you will have to wait longer between buying lenses, but you will never buy another camera, your eyes will not rove for another camera and you will keep and use the equipment the rest of your life. It is more than a camera, it is a system.

I like to travel with the 50mm, 80mm and 250mm lenses. For narrow streets for places like the Greek Islands I like the Hasseblad 903 SWC, the 50mm lens, the 80mm lens.

I concur. If only one MF camera, Hasselblad should be the one, with a few lenses which can be acquired one at a time as needed. My first C lens was 60mm. Just as with Leica S, initial design so right that it never changed through decades of models. If no need for interchangeable lenses, then a Rolleiflex. Both brands are high quality. I was using film backs from my long deceased 1000F until a few years ago, when I decided to upgrade. Folders and 69 cameras are nice to have as supplementary, but you would be using Hassy or Rolleiflex a lot more.

 

[4season]

At least for items purchased for personal use, I have never needed to pay any sort of taxes for importing into the USA for items under 1000 USD (I think the limit was around 2500 USD?). However, if you use a private carrier like DHL, there may be customs brokerage fees involved. For items sent via the postal service, I don't know if EMS from Japan to the USA has been restored, and surface mail can be slow: Earlier this year I had a ~12 week wait for one small item.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I love my RB for all the reasons Maris pointed out. I do sometimes do handhold with it. Pretty comfortable with the left hand grip and neckstrap.

 

[4season]

In principle one does not gain the secure advantages of a MF SLR, big highly detailed negatives on fine grained film, by hand holding the camera and accepting an unknown percentage will be ruined by subtle camera shake. Fast shutter speeds are irrelevant. These cameras should go on a tripod to justify the effort invested in carrying them.

Words of wisdom for sure: Much as I liked my GSW690, I felt that unless I held it very steady, much of the advantage versus 6x4.5 or smaller formats was lost.

 

[eli griggs]

I feel like and use, a good twist-lock monopod, where I feel the need to stead myself and camera, on 'walk abouts', but my Gitzo Reporter Tripod is never left at home.

Even more in need of a steady support than a Medium Format with wide to short 'teles', are 35mm with long lenses, zooms and 'teles', which is the reason I'm so used to using them.

Well, that, and my fondness for existing light, though I am still working on a solid Squad of Vivitar 283s and 285s as I grow older.

If nothing else, and no matter the Camera you take the decision to acquire, get and keep a really good used, no frills monopod like the Gitzo Aluminum ones of a couple or four decades ago, with a good ball head, and fold-up internal feet, for additional support.

One last tip, the metal monopod's feet tend to rattle at every chance, so take a long strip of heavy brown paper shopping bag and simply wrap them together, no bare leg on bare leg.and stuff them away,

The paper will take on the form and will re-wrap and unwrap for years, while keeping any shake or rattle at bay and out of mind.

 

[trick]

These are all fine cameras! I just wanted to throw the Mamiya 6/7 into the mix for you if you did end up going the rangefinder route. I've had a 7ii for about a decade and it's a wonderful camera, but definitely pricey. It is much more portable than the Pentax 67 (about half the weight) but I haven't used a Fuji to compare it to (but I know the Mamiya is lighter.)

 

[Leolab]

I have both the Fuji Rangefinders (GW690 and GSW690) as well as the original Pentax 6x7. The Pentax is clearly heavier, but it is also a little bit smaller with some of the lenses (45mm, 90mm...), it feels much more robust to me as well. I also have a WLF with the pentax which really lightens it up.
If i had to choose just one of the two systems/cameras I would keep the Pentax 6x7

 

[flavio81]

So the two cameras that I'm split between are the first gen. Pentax 67 and a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder (any model). I currently own a Mamiya RB67 and a Canon AE-1..

I owned the P67 and the RB67 at the same time. I sold the P67: Viewfinder was difficult to nail the focus in, and shutter vibrations made the camera difficult to get sharp shots at 1/60 or below (handheld, that is). The RB67 excelled on those two important factors.

And loading the film was slower than loading a RB67 film mag. Not to mention just swapping a mag for another one!

First, I'll talk about the Pentax. I am fond of this camera because of its ergonomics, similar to my AE-1.

I disagree, dimensions and weight matter a lot.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

At last we know Fuji 69 is a ... multi-format camera. It took me 25 years of owning one and could not get that confirmed from any source, until this thread. This Covid thing is bad ass.

As for OP question, you need to hold both of your choices before going to decide other factors. Fuji and P67 are so far apart in every single way I would not take too much in from any input until I had put my hands on one.

P67 and RB67 are not comperable either. A number of things make one more suitable than the other.

Shape of P67 does not translate into any similarities in handling to any 35mm SLR, and I mean none. Same goes for MF RF vs. any 35mm RF. Even if you own lumberjack hands these are all from different worlds.

Difference in handling between a 35mm vs. MF lookalike is like between a Honda Civic and a tractor trailer