Standardizing film & chemistry: Input on decision

wordpress · May 17, 2007

So, for the last year I have been shooting B&W film, and developing it myself. Some of it worked out "fine", some were "awful" - and a few were "stunning". All together I've shot about 200 rolls of 35mm B&W film.

Just like other "newbies" I had a lift-off problem: I got a lot of different film types and a lot of different developers, that ended up confusing the h*** out of me, but a year after it's getting clearer. This post is the first step of my 12 step standardizing program, hopefully I will end up with a few developers and film types, and really learn them.

This is were I need your expert advice, there are a lot of you people here that know this - so feel free to share the knowledge with me.

Films

I need them all - ISO 100, 400, 800, 1600 (and 3200...). For now, I think my favourites are:

Ilford Delta 100 (for ISO50 and ISO100 - stunning detail and sharpness)
Ilford HP5+ (for ISO400 and 800, this film made me appreciate grain)
Fujifilm Neopan 1600 (for ISO800-1000, not sure how much I like it at ISO1600...)
Ilford Delta 3200 (for everything above ISO1600 - grainy, but I'm slowly learning to control it...)

I have tried other films: Neopan 400 and Delta 400 (liked HP5 better). Ilford FP4+ (OK, but the Delta 100 gave me what I was looking for). I have been shooting some rolls of Fuji Acros lately, and I'm having a hard time seperating it from Delta 100 (in which case I will stay with Delta, since it's easier to get hold off).

As for developers -

Rodinal (for ISO50-100)
Ilford Microphen (for Delta 3200)
Kodak XTol (for everything else)

I did try ID-11, D76, DD-X and HC110, but XTol had something extra that makes me wanna run out and buy 50 packs (and it's cheap...). The only thing I didn't "like" with it was the ISO50-100 performance. It is good, but Rodinal just stands out at this speed.

Xtol did fine with Delta 3200 as well, but Microphen is my current favourite.

So, this is were I'm at. I guess if I had to pick one film and one developer it would be HP5+ and Xtol. But I would miss Rodinal... I know this is all personal - everybody has their favourites, but is there something you would try before settling down? Pyro is not for me (for now...).

There are films that I would like to try, especially APX100. But since it's no longer in production, I don't want to risk the chance of loving it

All input is deeply appreciated!

dancqu · May 17, 2007

wordpress said:
All input is deeply appreciated!

Likely you'll have a much easier time narrowing
your materials list if you just narrow your subject
list. Do as many others do and just shoot scenics
or take portraits, or photograph track events or
city night scapes or ... Dan

Mark Antony · May 17, 2007

Hi
you seem to have a very wide range of films there, difficult to narrow them down.
I'll give my 2¢
I use 2 groups of B&W film T-grain and conventional, within that I use mostly 100 and 400 speed.
My 2 main films in the fast speed group are Tri-x and Neopan 400 sometimes HP5 or T-Max
In the slower group I use Across and Fomapan sometimes FP4 or Adox 100
I find most of my photography can be shot with that narrow band of emulsions.
Of course there are occasions where extreme speed or very fine grain are needed, then I would go for T-Max 3200 (at 1600) or Adox 25, or Gigabit film when slower fine grain is needed.

I use Rodinal for a developer as it for me tells it like it is, and lets the films character show.
YMMV
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/

Steve Smith · May 17, 2007

My advice (assuming you have the time and money) is to try a wide range of films and developers. Then only you can decide what you personally prefer.

Once you have narrowed it down to, for instance, one film in each of the 50, 100, 400 ISO ranges, you can experiment with different developers, EI settings, etc.

When I was only using 35mm, I think I used FP4 for just about everything. Now I am using medium format, I tend to stick to PAN F if I am using a tripod and HP5 for hand held.

Apart from this, I have some Tri X and Rollei infra red film to experiment with but I still consider PAN F and HP5 to be my main films.

My main developer is Ilford LC-29 but I have also just bought some Rodinal and PMK pyro to try out.

Steve.

reellis67 · May 17, 2007

I did that too at one point, but now I use just three films (PanF+, PF4+, and HP5+), and use PF4+ %80 of the time and PanF+ most of the rest of the time. I settled down to Rodinal for about %90 of my developing and FX-1 and Perceptol for the remainder. For what I do, these options give me all the range that I need, but it took time to settle on these options. It depends quite a lot on your style, subject matter, personal taste, and a few other things...

- Randy

ann · May 17, 2007

take a roll of each film your thinking about, take a picture of the same thing with each. use one developer on each. make an 8x10 print of the image with each film and line them up and see which you like the best.

then try another developer , same subject matter , same workflow.

when finished you will have a group of photos that can be compared.

these donot have to be award winning photos, but it will help to chose a variety of topics that can be easily repeated. I.E. portrait, close up of a flower, landscape, etc.

different types of film/developer combos work well with certain types of images; but only you can determine what it is you want, that look, style, etc.

Tom Stanworth · May 17, 2007

What Ann says makes sense. In some respects you could just make a plug, check you are happy with the combo and continue in ignorant bliss. There's a lot to be said for not trying each film with the many devs!

You sound like you like D100 as you slow film. Stick with it
"""" HP5 as your 400 film
"""" Neopan 1600/Delta 3200 for high speed. (pick one of the two or try pushing HP5 plus)

Pick on utterly reliable std dev such as Xtol (which you like) and get to know it with all films. It also offers great speed and pushing (just try reducing agitation to once every 2 mins and pushing out the times with your HP5 plus 50% for starters and you will be amazed how well it works). The Xtol will work well with all films. Should you want more bite with your D100, use Rodinal.

There you go:

D100 (Rodinal if you want bite, Xtol if you want super fine grain and/or some more speed)

The rest in Xtol....or Rodinal if you will accept lower speed and want uber grain!

I have used tonnes of devs and flitted about as products came and went (as well as when I travelled and had availability issues). I made damned sure I knew all films I use in a std dev, such as ID11/D76 (basically same) or Xtol.

Now I (mainly) shoot:

Fp4+ in Xtol/D76
TriX in the same.
APX100 in same

Get totally reliable results and have less to worry about. once in a blue moon I shoot D100 if I want ultra fine grain. Right now I am shooting APX while I can for two reasons:

It is wonderful!
I can use teh same dev time as TriX...so dev in teh same tank. V useful.

FP4+ an Neopan 400 can also end up with very similar times....also handy!

About the only change I will make is adding Pyrocat HD back into things when i return home for the amazing acutance and reasonably fine grain. Lower speed can be a boon as if I realise I have underexposed some sheet film, I can pull out the second frame and run it thru Xtol or DDX fo another stop!

Rgds

Rich Ullsmith · May 17, 2007

Pyro with films that stain well. Rodinal 1+50 to 1+200 for T-grain films. Microphen neat if something needs pushing. This is just where I ended up!

Okay, if I was back to square one, I'd get the raw chems and a scale and make my own. The list of ingredients in solvent developers is short and cheap, and you can titrate to your liking. Pyro and Rodinal last forever off the shelf, so the only thing I mix is a Microphen analog from the Cookbook.

fhovie · May 17, 2007

I have 2 films - TRI-X and FP4 - FP4 for more contrast and TRI-X for less contrast - I use mostly 2 developers - Pcat-P (like Rodinol) for ASA200 and below (TRI-X or FP4) and XTOL for pushing TRI-X to 1600 for hand held available light roll film.
2 films - 2 developers - for 90% of what I do - 120, 4x5, 8x10 and sometimes "cute little films" -
Landscapes or portraits - the contrast situations vary anywhere you go - These films and developers will expand out 3 or 4 stops or reduce 12 stops all into the range that will print well on grade 2 paper.
Get the scale - get the chems and roll your own - I don't buy anything premixed anymore.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 18, 2007

Funny, that's my film choice as well. I do occasionally toy around with other films, but I'm contemplating just giving all those 'odd' films away to focus my efforts better. I use one single developer for all of it, Pyrocat-HD.
I really like them, they compliment eachother very very well.

Re: Original post - I would like to say one thing, and this may not apply to everybody, but it sure did to me. The more I worry about films and developers, the less I see and experience photography. Perhaps some day after I grow up I can start experimenting more, but I need to learn how to control what I currently use before I move on. I see you're trying to focus your efforts, and your approach may be as valid as mine, but four films? I would say your selection of Delta 100 and HP5 should cover what you're doing nicely. The HP5 pushes really well. I can see how an indoor concert would require some Delta 3200 if you're shooting with long lenses.
I second the opinion that it's best to narrow down the subject matter first. That's really good advice.

- Thomas

fhovie said:
I have 2 films - TRI-X and FP4 - FP4 for more contrast and TRI-X for less contrast - I use mostly 2 developers - Pcat-P (like Rodinol) for ASA200 and below (TRI-X or FP4) and XTOL for pushing TRI-X to 1600 for hand held available light roll film.
2 films - 2 developers - for 90% of what I do - 120, 4x5, 8x10 and sometimes "cute little films" -
Landscapes or portraits - the contrast situations vary anywhere you go - These films and developers will expand out 3 or 4 stops or reduce 12 stops all into the range that will print well on grade 2 paper.
Get the scale - get the chems and roll your own - I don't buy anything premixed anymore.

Richard Jepsen · May 19, 2007

"This post is the first step of my 12 step standardizing program, hopefully I will end up with a few developers and film types, and really learn them."

You have the right idea to limit your materials. I suggest shooting with one medium & one fast speed film. Standardize on a general purpose solvent developer such as Xtol/ID-11 and one non-solvent developer. Two films and developers will cover most ground. Fhovie is right on the money about using the type of film to adjust to light contrast. If you need more details on film consider shooting medium format vs a slow film. Also fit the film/EI/paper/light-source with each other. I got much better results after lowering the EI of FP-4 and Tri-X.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 20, 2007

I think what's important is not to standardize the entirety of one's process on one film/developer combination. What's important is to know exactly what each combination does! If you're a crack, you might actually be able to use many combinations without batting an eyelash.

What I've decided to do for myself (I'm not a crack!) is to have one regular film/dev combo (Tri-X in Xtol 1+1) that I use most of the time, and keep trying other things on the side at regular intervals. Right now I'm doing a visit in the world of ortho and blue-sensitive films.

That way I develop a senstivity to the tri-x/xtol combination by shooting it regularly, and I keep the door open to other options.

brian steinberger · May 20, 2007

Xtol is a great developer. By any means atleast stick with one developer, as it is easier to do so than sticking with one film.

Stay with Delta 100 if you like it as your slow speed film. Your fast film is where I have different tastes. I think Neopan 400 is much better than HP5. I develop my Neopan in Xtol 1:1 and get delicious negatives.

Stick with one or two films and one developer until you get a feel for how your prints are turning out.

Bob Carnie · May 20, 2007

I basically use HP5 and two different developers.
I rate all my film at about 160 IS0 because that is the speed I use my colour film in C41 which is a standard process.
I do not use light meters therefore the standard ISO helps me be repeatable and gain experience. Since the sun is basically the same distance away from me year round I like bright sunny days at 1/250 sec at f16. Whatever the environment gives me in ways of diffusion I will adjust the apeture or speed accordingly. Open shade is also a consistant fstop in my calculations.

I will use PMK drop one > for all film in strong light,
I will use D76 normal> for soft lighting conditions.
I will use D76 push one-two stops >if I want to make lithprints or solarizations.

This works for me and I seem to get very repeatable film across the board, it may not work for everyone but I believe in the KISS program of photography.
I shoot a lot of film and prefer manual rangefinder cameras with no relience on batterys or gizmos to calculate exposure, just my enourmous brain.

Michael W · May 20, 2007

Wordpress - looks to me like you already have things worked out pretty well for the way you photograph. Nothing wrong with regularly using a few different films & developers, esp as you say that you need a wide range of film speeds.
My one suggestion relates to Neopan 1600 which you are rating around 1000 & developing in Xtol. I've started putting this film in Diafine & get true 1600 with a nice tonal range. You might want to consider this as Diafine is a very simple developer to use.

reellis67 · May 21, 2007

mhv said:
I think what's important is not to standardize the entirety of one's process on one film/developer combination. What's important is to know exactly what each combination does!

Agreed. That's why I keep three black and white films on hand and a couple of developers. That allows me the flexibility to get result that I want with what I have on hand. It takes time to learn what different combinations can do, but once you have that down you should be able look at your subject and then pick your tools to get it the way you want it.

- Randy

jeroldharter · May 21, 2007

The other variable that you must have alot of is time. Even with 3 films and 3 developers you have 9 options, not to mention paper + developer + toner etc.

I do mostly 4 x 5 and a little 120. I use TXAX 100 for 4 x 5 and TMAX 400 for 120, all with TMAX RS developer.

mcgrattan · May 21, 2007

I basically have two films and one developer I rely on for medium speed shooting. Neopan 400 and Neopan Acros, both in Adox ADX (A+B).

I'm still experimenting with other combinations for faster and slower film speeds. There's also a look the various 'retro' eastern european films have -- Foma, Efke, etc -- that I like but which I don't have settled preferences for.

I only use one paper -- the basic Ilford Multigrade VC Resin Coated.

The idea of standardising is an attractive one, I think.

greybeard · May 21, 2007

Perhaps: standardize on one film/developer combination for whatever the bulk of the pictures requires, and keep a second "in hand" for the situations that are the polar opposite of whatever your "standard" is.

For example, FP4/HP5 in PMK are relatively inexpensive, very long-lived, and will handle pretty much anything that doesn't need a lot of shadow speed. Tri-X in HC110 will do most of the rest, and HC110 lasts (if anything) longer than PMK on the shelf.

For your needs, it almost looks like you need one film in the 100 ISO range, and one in the 1600 range---matched with developers suitable for their types.
That should do it for most things, but do try something different once in a while, for "continuing education" if nothing else.

efreddi · May 22, 2007

Wordpress, in my opinion you have really too many films/developers. My suggestion is to stick on one/two films and one developer.

After a long wandering my choice is the unbeatable Tri-X and a home-brewed developer based on phenidone, ascorbic acid and borax (from Patrick Gainer's receipes). I take all my regular photos with this film.
Sometime I want to have tiny grain then I use some TMax 100, a really nice film, or I make some experiment with other films (for example IR), but these are not my standard ones.

Why do I use a single film? Simply, I know it better ---> I use it better ---> I'm more satisfacted by it.
Best regards

Elia

dancqu · May 22, 2007

wordpress said:
All input is deeply appreciated!

Excellent optics deserve better than grainy low resolution films.
I wonder how many have spent much for optics of very high
quality then turned to the use of such films. Dan

Soeren · May 22, 2007

As standard I use Pan F (120) and Neopan 400 (120+135) developed in Rodinal and/or Diafine(Pan F only) I also use HP5+ but so far only in my Holga. When it comes to 35mm slow film I'd pick Delta 100 but I havn't shot much 35mm lately so I havn't come around that one yet.
Kind regards
Søren

John Bragg · May 22, 2007

Hi Wordpress,

You seem to be on the right track with all the testing. My advice for what it is worth, is to keep trying with the films you really like and do not be put off by some indifferent results from time to time. Rather, keep some prints of your less successful endeavours with a certain film developer combination as a reference. It does pay to look back at these with fresh eyes and sometimes realisation dawns and the smallest of changes can make a winning formula from a non starter.
Dilution and agitation are the often forgotten factors in how a developer works with a given film. Exposure index is also important, so do not be afraid to test for your personal EI, even if this simply means bracketing a few shots on each roll you use as a simple means to an end.

Best wishes in your efforts,

John.

Standardizing film & chemistry: Input on decision

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