Stand development - Shouldn't I be doing something, anything?

Kevin Caulfield · Jan 28, 2014

I've just started my first ever stand development session. Acros 100 in FX2. I'm leaving it for 1 hour and a quarter. I must say, this feels really unusual. Surely I should be doing something right now? I did an initial one minute agitation, and that will be it for the next hour and a bit. That is so long! I shall report back in a bit, well, an hour and a bit to be precise.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 28, 2014

Read http://jackspcs.com/fx2.htm

Kevin Caulfield · Jan 28, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
Read http://jackspcs.com/fx2.htm

Thanks, Gerald. Also taking on board your earlier recommendation to test carefully with FX2 stand development. I didn't do a pre-soak, so if I get air bubbles, I'll know what to do.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 28, 2014

Stand development is very Zen. You first have to accept what ever the outcome will be. But it's brilliant. Not agitating for most of the development allows the most exposed parts to exhaust the developer while the shadows continue to develop. You'll have to experiment to find out what works.

Kevin Caulfield · Jan 29, 2014

Reporting back now. The film is now drying, and on first glance it looks great. I seem to have avoided air bubbles. Initial temperature was about 18.4 C and final temperature was about 24 C.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Xmas · Jan 29, 2014

I've never had problems with little green men either...

I pour in dev invert once and set kitchen or phone timer.

StoneNYC · Jan 29, 2014

I admit, my stand is... Semi stand, I invert once every 20 minutes.... Shame on me...

Xmas · Jan 29, 2014

Kevin Caulfield said:
Reporting back now. The film is now drying, and on first glance it looks great. I seem to have avoided air bubbles. Initial temperature was about 18.4 C and final temperature was about 24 C.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

With that temperature change there would be convection so some agitation in effect.

I do my stand in a tempered bath but again that will lead to some convection.

18C will slow some developing agents compared with 24C, but Id not worry, if the negs go on or close to grade 2 paper- that is good work.

I never get air bubbles, Id not worry. But you need to control stop fix and wash temperatures as the film will be softer than normal. I use a hypo clear and squeegee.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 29, 2014

Kevin Caulfield said:
Thanks, Gerald. Also taking on board your earlier recommendation to test carefully with FX2 stand development. I didn't do a pre-soak, so if I get air bubbles, I'll know what to do.

Air bubbles should not be a problem if you agitate constantly for the first minute.

Rick A · Jan 29, 2014

Stand development is when I stand next to the sink while developing my film normally.

baachitraka · Jan 29, 2014

Rick A said:
Stand development is when I stand next to the sink while developing my film normally.

By that way, it may be easy to prevent the Bromide drag.

tron_ · Jan 29, 2014

I've developed lots of film (120) using the semi-stand method with 30 sec agitation in the beginning and four inversions at the 30 min point with excellent results. Never had a problem with Bromide drag either.

Regular Rod · Jan 29, 2014

Bromide drag? Never heard of it. What is it? How does it affect the negative?

RR

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 29, 2014

Bromide is a product of developer exaustion

Regular Rod said:
Bromide drag? Never heard of it. What is it? How does it affect the negative?

RR

When you agitate, you clear the exhausted developer that has bromide. But with stand development, it can be an advantage since it's exhausted developer not as active in highlight areas. The highlights are less likely to blow out. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

StoneNYC · Jan 29, 2014

Mainecoonmaniac said:
When you agitate, you clear the exhausted developer that has bromide. But with stand development, it can be an advantage since it's exhausted developer not as active in highlight areas. The highlights are less likely to blow out. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

He's kidding, like Drew who would tell you a story about how he invented a developer with no toxins and no bromide, RR will tell you his developers never make mistakes or cause problems

I'll tell you I've done crazy things, we all are a bunch of characters here...

StoneNYC · Jan 29, 2014

Rick A said:
Stand development is when I stand next to the sink while developing my film normally.

I did this for the first time today... I used a rotary processor for development... I felt helpless and bored just standing there... It was strange...

Regular Rod · Jan 29, 2014

StoneNYC said:
He's kidding, like Drew who would tell you a story about how he invented a developer with no toxins and no bromide, RR will tell you his developers never make mistakes or cause problems

I'll tell you I've done crazy things, we all are a bunch of characters here...

Honestly I do not know what is meant by Bromide Drag. I know about exhausting the developer in the highlights by stand and semi-stand agitation, as I use this characteristic nearly every time I process roll film, but I got the impression from baachitraka's post that constant agitation got rid of a problem known as Bromide Drag and this naturally made me curious, so I asked what it is.

RR

jsimoespedro · Jan 29, 2014

I am a beginner, but from my experience Std and semi-Std give very different results.

I would say shadow detail is identical but highlights becomes must denser with semi-std.

Std gives negatives of low contrast, which is good for my scanner. Other will have different experiences.

BTW I use Rodinal 1:100 6ml + 600ml for a 120 roll. For 1 hour.

So far it works fine for me.

StoneNYC · Jan 29, 2014

Regular Rod said:
Honestly I do not know what is meant by Bromide Drag. I know about exhausting the developer in the highlights by stand and semi-stand agitation, as I use this characteristic nearly every time I process roll film, but I got the impression from baachitraka's post that constant agitation got rid of a problem known as Bromide Drag and this naturally made me curious, so I asked what it is.

RR

I swear in the "obsidian aqua" post you said you had never had bromide drag with it...

That said, essentially you end up with an image that looks mottled especially in areas like the sky, this is because the exhausted developer sits for too long, and sort of leaves spots or often leaves dragging marks, you will see this sometimes in 35mm film near the sprockets because the developer gets hung up there and then drags down if the tank is sitting too long from gravity.

Examples, google is your friend.

cliveh · Jan 29, 2014

Rick A said:
Stand development is when I stand next to the sink while developing my film normally.

+1

In England (if I am correct and am not always) we refer to this as still bath development and the only time I have done this is when developing litho negs exposed to copy fine line reproductions using tray development of sheet film after initial agitation.
Development results in the production of soluble bromide, which is liberated in proportion to the amount of silver developed (Im quoting from the Ilford Manual of photography now). Since bromide restrains development, local concentrations from still development render the process uneven. Agitation during development is designed to prevent this. With insufficient agitation a number adjacency effects may arise (Eberhard effects). Insufficient agitation of films developed in a vertical plane can cause bromide streamers from heavily exposed areas and dark developer streamers from lightly exposed areas.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 29, 2014

I have a question about BW film developer to the experts out there. So does bromide in developer makes a developer "seasoned"? I prefer the look of seasoned developer over fresh developer. Maybe PE has some insight on this.

erikg · Jan 29, 2014

Bromide is a primary component in a "seasoned" developer, yes. I always develop film "one shot" so I can't comment on the "look". I dislike most things about stand development that others seem to get so excited about so I only use it in special cases for extreme compressions, following the example and advice of Steve Sherman. I think it's really bad advice to tell someone just starting out to use stand as the normal mode. Too many risks with no basis for comparison.

Regular Rod · Jan 29, 2014

Thank you Stone. I see what it means now. Nasty stuff!

RR

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 29, 2014

Definitely

erikg said:
I think it's really bad advice to tell someone just starting out to use stand as the normal mode. Too many risks with no basis for comparison.

Yes. I use the technique to tame contrast. It's not appropriate for every situation.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 29, 2014

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I have a question about BW film developer to the experts out there. So does bromide in developer makes a developer "seasoned"? I prefer the look of seasoned developer over fresh developer. Maybe PE has some insight on this.

Seasoned developer does contain more bromide than fresh developer. However this is not the only thing which changes. Iodide ion can also increase particularly when T-grain or Delta films are developed. Iodide is is a more powerful restrainer than is bromide ion. For an MQ developer like D-76 the hydroquinone monosulfate ion also builds up. This is a softer working developing agent than hydroquinone itself. There is also a change in pH with poorly buffered developers like D-76. So all in all not a simple change.

Stand development - Shouldn't I be doing something, anything?

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