Stand Develope in Trays?

Mike A · Mar 22, 2006

Has anyone tried stand developing in trays? Can this be done or does the film need to be fully immersed in a vertical orientation?

Mike

Ole · Mar 22, 2006

It can be done. But the problem is that the films tend to either float to the surface so the emulsion dries out (emulsion side up), or sink to the bottom and stick to the bottom of the tray (emulsion side down).

With glass plate negatives it's easy!

argus · Mar 22, 2006

I have no problem with stand development in a tray. Emulsion side up and the sheets sink to the bottom.
To keep the sheets from overlaying, I use a slosher tray.

G

noseoil · Mar 22, 2006

Mike, the general opinion is that it is easier to get good results with a vertical orientation. My best results have been in this manner as well. For 8x10 you might consider a new gallon paint can with a lid, a length of 3" black abs plumbing drain line (new one please, not used) with a cap on one end and a screw plug on the other, or some other variation on this theme. Best results come from careful initial agitation and subsequent cycles of a uniform and gentle nature. Steve Sherman has become the default expert in this method, by means of his tried and true (trial and error) approach. He seems to have re-invented the wheel with astounding results. Best, tim

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 22, 2006

As I have stated in previous posts, I get identical results (uniform development, no streaking):

1. stand developing in slosher trays (Pyrocat-HD, film emulsion side up, with water pre-soak).

2. stand developing in BZTS type tubes (i.e., vertical orientation), (Pyrocat-HD, with water pre-soak).

gainer · Mar 22, 2006

I just bought a cheap paper safe to use as a stand developing tray. I got the kind whose lid hinges at one end. I think a plastic picture frame will keep the film from sticking to the bottom. Haven't tried it yet, but if worst comes to worst, I can always use another paper safe. My idea was that the lid would allow me to go about other business with lights or safelight on during long periods between agra..agitation.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 22, 2006

Slosher -Vs- Hanger

When I got my used 4X5 camera it came with 6 or so hangers that I've never used. I've been using a CPE 2.
The discussions on Stand Development has caught my imagination and my question is, is there a difference in results or potential for disaster when using hangers versus a slosher tray?

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 22, 2006

Hangers for anything take a little bit of learning curve. I tried using hangers for normal development, but I got developer surge on my film from the vent holes in the hanger frames. This may not be a problem with EMA/semi-stand, but the downside to hangers is the extreme volume of chemistry you have to mix up relative to the number of sheets you can process.

r-brian · Mar 22, 2006

gainer said:
I just bought a cheap paper safe to use as a stand developing tray. I got the kind whose lid hinges at one end. I think a plastic picture frame will keep the film from sticking to the bottom. Haven't tried it yet, but if worst comes to worst, I can always use another paper safe. My idea was that the lid would allow me to go about other business with lights or safelight on during long periods between agra..agitation.

Great idea. I've got 2 11x14 safes like you describe that are not in use. Build a slosher tray to go in them and I've got a day light developing tray. Now if I just have the time to built it and the New Mexico spring winds stop blowing long enough to set up the 4x5.

Brian

Bruce Osgood · Mar 22, 2006

gainer said:
I just bought a cheap paper safe to use as a stand developing tray.

That's the best, most ingenious idea I've seen come out of APUG in 4 years. My hat's off to you Gadget.

df cardwell · Mar 22, 2006

TheFlyingCamera said:
Hangers for anything take a little bit of learning curve. I tried using hangers for normal development, but I got developer surge on my film from the vent holes in the hanger frames. This may not be a problem with EMA/semi-stand, but the downside to hangers is the extreme volume of chemistry you have to mix up relative to the number of sheets you can process.

Hangers are really a cinch and very suitable to semi-stand development.

Jim Jones · Mar 22, 2006

Ole said:
It can be done. But the problem is that the films tend to either float to the surface so the emulsion dries out (emulsion side up), or sink to the bottom and stick to the bottom of the tray (emulsion side down).

With glass plate negatives it's easy!

For solarizing litho or Tech Pan negatives where a little bit of stand development is needed, I use a cut-down film hanger to keep the film submerged face up. The film is backed with a sheet of fully exposed and developed film to block reflections from the hanger.

Jim Noel · Mar 22, 2006

I have been using stand development for special projects since the 40's.
A typical example of my use is when photographing flat scenes under heavily clouded skies and the need for expansion is great. Utilizing well used D-23 in trays I agitate for 30-45 seconds, cover with another tray and do other things. After about an hour I agitate for about 15 seconds, inspect the negative from the base side, and cover it once again. This typically goes on for about 3 hours, but i have let the film stand overnight. The amount of expansion is truly great, often as much as 4-5 stops in the highlights.

I learned this during my first job in photography. The last thing we did each evening was load all of the roll film, regardless of maker, onto a large rack with 2 oz lead weights at the bottom of the film. The film was lowered into the huge D-23 bath, which I never remember changing, lifted up and down a few times, the top cover placed on it and left until we arrived the next morning to complete the processing and print all of the negatives.

This is true total development, and the silver in the well used developer re-plated the highlights to get them to their maximum density. All negatives were printable unless the film was so severely underexpsed that there was little or no information on the film.

The only film I ave never developed with this technigue are the T-Max and similar ones.

gainer · Mar 22, 2006

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
That's the best, most ingenious idea I've seen come out of APUG in 4 years. My hat's off to you Gadget.

Glad to be of help. This is unusual. Some simply think I'm perverted.

Loose Gravel · Mar 22, 2006

Jim Noel said:
I have been using stand development for special projects since the 40's.
A typical example of my use is when photographing flat scenes under heavily clouded skies and the need for expansion is great. Utilizing well used D-23 in trays I agitate for 30-45 seconds, cover with another tray and do other things. After about an hour I agitate for about 15 seconds, inspect the negative from the base side, and cover it once again. This typically goes on for about 3 hours, but i have let the film stand overnight. The amount of expansion is truly great, often as much as 4-5 stops in the highlights.

I learned this during my first job in photography. The last thing we did each evening was load all of the roll film, regardless of maker, onto a large rack with 2 oz lead weights at the bottom of the film. The film was lowered into the huge D-23 bath, which I never remember changing, lifted up and down a few times, the top cover placed on it and left until we arrived the next morning to complete the processing and print all of the negatives.

This is true total development, and the silver in the well used developer re-plated the highlights to get them to their maximum density. All negatives were printable unless the film was so severely underexpsed that there was little or no information on the film.

The only film I ave never developed with this technigue are the T-Max and similar ones.

Jim, this reminds me of Oliver Gagliani. What film are you using? Do you imagine that there is a one shot film developer that would work for those of us that don't have used D23. I threw mine out (20 years ago). Thanks.

noseoil · Mar 22, 2006

Pyrocat-hd

Mike A · Mar 26, 2006

I bit the bullet and processed my 11x14 negs in trays using semi stand agitating with a brush. I used my NVGs to ensure the sheets stayed submersed, which they did the whole processing time with out assistance. Of course I cheated and observe the development at the end of the processing time with the NVGs as well.

Long story short, semi stand works in trays, with the materials, chemistry and process times that I was using.

micek · Mar 26, 2006

Mike, what does NVGs stand for?

argus · Mar 26, 2006

night vision goggles.

G

micek · Mar 27, 2006

Thanks, argus.

Maine-iac · Mar 30, 2006

argus said:
I have no problem with stand development in a tray. Emulsion side up and the sheets sink to the bottom.
To keep the sheets from overlaying, I use a slosher tray.

G

My education is incomplete. What's a slosher tray? Is it like my kitty litter developing trays?

Larry

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 30, 2006

Maine-iac said:
My education is incomplete. What's a slosher tray? Is it like my kitty litter developing trays?

Larry

Summitek AFAIK was the original manufacturer of these devices and they call them "Cradles" I have two of the Summitek Cradles (4x5 and 5x7) and I also have a more expensive PF copy of the Summitek Cradle (an 8x10) that PF call a "Slosher."

Here is Summitek's description:

"The Cradle is a developing tray insert that separates sheet film for tray development. It can be used for normal or compensating development including Pyro. It is hand made of 1/8 black Acrylic plastic and is warranted for 5 years against defects in manufacture and materials. Please note that the tray is not included. The Cradle comes in two sizes: The CR45 holds 6 sheets of 4X5 film, fits an 11X14 tray and costs $45 + shipping. The CR57 holds 6 sheets of 5X7 film, and fits a 16X20 tray and costs $55 + shipping."

See:http://www.summitek.com/cradle.html

Stand Develope in Trays?

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