stains on emulsion side TMZ3200

peri24 · Mar 22, 2010

Hi,
i've noticed that my lasts rolls of kodak tmz 3200 have some "stains" on emulsion side, after years fighting to get clean negs it's bothering me these marks, stains, that seem to be inside emulsion.
They are in the same place always, just in the middle of the film, at the same high, and i have them almost in every frame, sometimes more than one per frame, sometimes none for few frames.
So can it be a tiny lightleak? i've been using the same camera with other films with no problems so far.
Or maybe it's some developing process problem, i just can't figure it out, if they were irregular marks maybe (fixer problem?) but at the same place always, like a pattern?
Anyway here a shot with these two marks.
i need some help, please!

frobozz · Mar 22, 2010

Those look like "drips" - I'd look at whether you're getting all the Photo-Flo off again before drying, or if you have hard water, or something... Do they always sag down towards the end of the film that was lower when hung to dry?

Duncan

clayne · Mar 23, 2010

Less photoflo rather than more photoflo. Don't screw around with the film, just wash it and let it hang without touching it.

peri24 · Mar 23, 2010

ok, so is there any know problem about "new" tmz 3200 and photoflo??
i've been using the same developing technique with all of my films and had no problems so far, i've been using also with other batches of tmz and no problems, last week other rolls of trix came gorgeous. So the only variable here can be a new batch of film itself, a new unknow problem with my old camera, or... ahhhhh i don't know.
I've been fighting with hard water problems and these marks doesn't look as water related problems, all of my problems in the past water/dry hanging related were not in the emulsion side, and these marks are not ON the film they look iN the film.
any ideas?? please i don't want to ruin 2 more ready to develop films that are waiting.

clayne · Mar 24, 2010

What ratio of pflo are you using?

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

a minuscule tiny drop per tank, i think i have had the same 250ml bottle for 6 years or so.

Anon Ymous · Mar 24, 2010

Peri, keep in mind that there are different kinds of Kodak's Photo-flo out there. There's PF200 and PF600. The numbers (200, 600) tell the dilution proposed by the manufacturer. For example, you would dilute 1 part PF200 in 200 parts of water to get a working solution. Some people think it's far too much and less is actually needed. Anyway, I use 2 drops of PF600 in 250-300ml of deionised water and it works for me. Any drying marks (if any, that's rare) are on the base side and don't show up in prints, even with my condenser enlarger.

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

i´m using an ilford product, to my knowledge is not being manufacture more, is at least 6 or more years old.
The instructions if i can recall them correctly state to use a drop per tank with destilled water, or it was my "teacher" who said that i can't remember, anyway, it always worked for me.
As Anon said, i can get some drying marks but as he/she also said it´s rare and always on the base side, nothing to worry about even for my scanner.
But if you know how water marks are, they don't look the same as these tiny marks.
I was trying to shoot the same film with another body to eliminate the lightleak problem but in the middle of the roll my batteries run out, so tomorrow tops i will reveal the mistery.

Anon Ymous · Mar 24, 2010

Peri, you probably use Ilford's Ilfotol, which "should" be diluted 1+200 (see here, page 4). Of course, proper dilution is something relative and depends on the kind of water used. Anyway, try 1+200 and see what happens. I also don't think that these marks are light leaks. They'd have to be more diffuse and the ones you have look like droplet stains. Have a look at the lower part, it's well defined and sharp, as opposed to the upper part. The upper part had less water and made a "smudge" as it evaporated. The lower was the last to evaporate and has a well defined outline.

PS I'm a he

Photo Engineer · Mar 24, 2010

Those marks are dark on the original film, and too dark IMHO to be made by drying marks. They look more like kink marks in the original film or drip marks of developer onto the film before processing. If this is 120 film, it is easy to kink it when loading onto reels for processing.

I would say it has nothing to do with photo flo or any other final rinse!

PE

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

that's what i think also, it doesn't look like a photo flo or rinse problem to me.
About kink marks, after looking again my negs once developed and dried they look completly flat without kink marks on it. I had kink marks on the past with 120 film when i was starting developing at home, but these stains have no marks on the film they look inside the emulsion like they were part of the picture. About drips of developer before processing, i doubt it. My reels and tanks are clean and dry before starting and i never use water bath before developer. Btw it is 35mm film, (do they have kodak tmz 3200 in 120?).
thanks

Photo Engineer · Mar 24, 2010

There is a coating defect that resembles this in extrusion hopper coating that is called a comet. It looks like one of them. However, this film is slide coated and comets do not usually form. In fact, they have a very strict QC program that looks for these and removes them by trimming properly.

You may want to contact Kodak.

PE

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

all i hope is the last 20 rolls of tmz 3200 that i bought (same batch) don't suffer this problem, btw i just develop another roll and it also has these marks in the same place, so it makes sense to start pointing kodak as the source of the problems.
But i also discover one thing, just for curiosity i went to my old developed tmz films to compare them against the new problematic one. And i realized that the old ones doesn't have the film base or better said all film has not a a purple tint on it. The new problematic one has it, a purple tint on it, but and that´s the freaky thing it looks that this tint is not uniform all over the film, it's hard to see but the tint is stronger or lighter depending the place.
There's always an associated tint on all black and white film bases as far as i know, depending the films the color changes but this purple tint is not uniform. Can it be possible that it didn't remove well during developing process somehow and it produced these marks?...

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

black

Photo Engineer · Mar 24, 2010

Well, the problem I have with a defect is that the rolls are so huge that a repetitive defect usually shows up quite far apart. I don't rule one out, but I suggest that you contact Kodak.

They keep a huge chart of defects and can usually match what you see to something on the chart and that is at least a start for you.

PE

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

ok, thanks, do you know where or how can i contact Kodak??
i'm in spain, but the film were bought in usa.
thanks

Photo Engineer · Mar 24, 2010

peri24 said:
ok, thanks, do you know where or how can i contact Kodak??
i'm in spain, but the film were bought in usa.
thanks

That presents a problem. The film for each country has a toll free number to call for assistance. I can't help you for Spain, but you can get assistance in English by calling the number on the box.

PE

peri24 · Mar 24, 2010

i've checking all my kodak film boxes there's not a single telephone number, there is a web site adress though, i went there and it's just information about products, and if you go to Kodak support link, they only offer support for digital/lab products.
So i just explain them this situation thru "live help" adress. Let's see if i get back any answer.

peri24 · Mar 30, 2010

here we go again.....
i hope that someone share some light here, because kodak must be really busy planing which film will kill next to bother answer my questions.
I don't expect any answer after 7 days of my enquiring so, if anyone has any clue about my problem say something please!. I have to say that i tried shooting the film with another camera and the problem is still there, after few developed films with the same technique and same chemicals 5 were f***** up and 2 were good. The crappy ones apart having those marks also have the irregular tint issue were the good ones just look like normal and good tmz.
Anyway, i must admit that if this thing will not resolve like i'm who is screwing up the film doing god knows what. Those will be my last kodak films ever. These films are useless and not cheap at all, from a company with ZERO costumer service.

clayne · Mar 30, 2010

peri24 said:
here we go again.....
i hope that someone share some light here, because kodak must be really busy planing which film will kill next to bother answer my questions.
I don't expect any answer after 7 days of my enquiring so, if anyone has any clue about my problem say something please!. I have to say that i tried shooting the film with another camera and the problem is still there, after few developed films with the same technique and same chemicals 5 were f***** up and 2 were good. The crappy ones apart having those marks also have the irregular tint issue were the good ones just look like normal and good tmz.
Anyway, i must admit that if this thing will not resolve like i'm who is screwing up the film doing god knows what. Those will be my last kodak films ever. These films are useless and not cheap at all, from a company with ZERO costumer service.

I think you might need to sacrifice a roll to open light to see if it's already on the film pre-development. It's starting to sound as if some form of liquid and/or excessive moisture has hit the film before you even use it.

stains on emulsion side TMZ3200

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