Stains on border Ilford Art 300, quid?

Noemi · Dec 8, 2021

Hello dear darkroom community

I started printed on Ilford Art 300 paper last week and got some strange stains around the border of the print when in the fixer (Bergger). Any idea what is causing this and how to avoid? Chemistry was fresh, paper is new.

i will be doing more tests this weekend.
Many thanks.

Noemi

Lachlan Young · Dec 8, 2021

Three questions:

1. What dilution of fixer were you using?
2. How long was the paper in the fix for?
3. How deep was the fixer in the tray?

Noemi · Dec 8, 2021

Hi

1) dilution was 1+4
2) not sure how long but the stains started appearing quite quickly, less than 40seconds into fix
3) not very deep, that’s something I want to be more careful about when I test next, as this paper floats more I want to make sure it’s well immersed

Nicholas Lindan · Dec 8, 2021

You do not mention the chemicals you are using.

Heavy fiber paper, no stop bath and an alkaline fixer guarantees this sort of staining.

You need to use a stop bath and/or leave the print in the stop bath long enough to neutralize all the developer in the paper. Thicker fiber paper takes longer to neutralize the developer that has soaked into the base - give it a good 30 seconds to minute. Using an acid fixer also minimizes staining.

kevs · Dec 8, 2021

I second Nicholas here; your stains are coming from developer being carried over into the fixer. You should always use fresh, strong stop bath (short stop) with fibre-based papers to ensure developer is not carried over into the fixer. Take your time, make sure your print is fully immersed in the liquid for the prescribed time. Make fresh stop bath for each session; or at least discard ~25% and replenish. If you've no stop bath to hand, use strong vinegar at a pinch. Also, make sure you either wash off or immerse in stop bath any tongs or fingers you use to transfer prints between the baths. Stop is cheap and good paper is expensive; using a stop bath for printing will save you time, money and frustration in the long run, a lesson I learnt over many years!

Dusty Negative · Dec 8, 2021

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/help-me-identify-and-rectify-this-staining-of-fb-paper.186432/

It’s the Stop. Stop for at least a minute in fresh stop and make sure the print is submerged the whole time. I use the tongs to make sure the print is submerged.

As you’ll see in the linked thread, this issue was busting my head, and since I took the good guidance provided above, I have never had it again. This paper needs to be thoroughly^2 stopped, washed, and washed again (even compared to other FB paper) but particularly before toning.

MattKing · Dec 9, 2021

duplicate threads combined

Noemi · Dec 9, 2021

Thank you everyone. I did use a stop bath, my fixer was Bergger berfix, and I’m very careful with not carrying over any chemicals. I was also printing on Ilford warmtone that same day in same chemicals with no issues at all.

for next cession:

1) I didn’t make fresh stop bath so will do next time
2) i will leave longer in stop bath
3 make sure I make enough fixer - possibly using acid fixer - so can immerse fully and no longer than 90s

MattKing · Dec 9, 2021

Be sure to agitate the print in the stop bath.
Ilford Art 300 can absorb a lot of developer!

MarkS · Dec 9, 2021

In addition, a simple citric acid stop bath will work as well as a traditional acetic acid stop bath- and will not have the nasty vinegar smell.

Nicholas Lindan · Dec 9, 2021

... the nasty vinegar smell.

I don't mind the smell of vinegar & fixer and in fact rather like them; it's the smell of the darkroom - a comforting smell.

Noemi · Dec 9, 2021

Thank you everyone for your feedback, and Dusty Negative for the link. I had seen a post about Art 300 stains but not that one, so good info. I’ll report back after a few tests next week.

john_s · Dec 9, 2021

I don't use that particular paper, but I was surprised by how much developer is absorbed by FB paper. Using a Nova vertical slot processor it's very obvious when topping up is required. And I too liked the idea of water as stop bath for paper but had the same staining problem.

Noemi · Dec 12, 2021

Ok, 2nd test following recommendations is conclusive. More chemistry, agitating, longer time in stop bath (about 90s), about 2min with good agitation in fresh fix, seems to be ok. Thank you !!

Dusty Negative · Dec 12, 2021

Noemi said:
Ok, 2nd test following recommendations is conclusive. More chemistry, agitating, longer time in stop bath (about 90s), about 2min with good agitation in fresh fix, seems to be ok. Thank you !!View attachment 293117

Excellent! I do 90s in Stop bath as well. That seems to take care of most of the issues for me, outside of toning. I find I need a complete wash (30-45 mins, including fixer remover) before toning to ensure no staining.

Juan Valdenebro · Dec 12, 2021

Noemi said:
Ok, 2nd test following recommendations is conclusive. More chemistry, agitating, longer time in stop bath (about 90s), about 2min with good agitation in fresh fix, seems to be ok. Thank you !!View attachment 293117

Beautiful photograph !
Congratulations !!!

Noemi · Dec 13, 2021

Thank you!

winger · Dec 15, 2021

Great image! I'm glad your problem has been solved. Now, if someone wanted the odd edges you had in the first post, how would they go about it? Had you used a shallow amount of stop? Or of other chemicals? (yes, I like to experiment with other looks)

Jay Schrotenboer · Dec 15, 2021

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winger said:
Great image! I'm glad your problem has been solved. Now, if someone wanted the odd edges you had in the first post, how would they go about it? Had you used a shallow amount of stop? Or of other chemicals? (yes, I like to experiment with other looks)

You could try using just a water stop bath with this paper. That is what I have been doing, and with my most recent 5x7 prints I was getting a similar effect on the border. I will be switching to an acid stop bath from now on personally.

winger · Dec 15, 2021

Jay Schrotenboer said:
[

You could try using just a water stop bath with this paper. That is what I have been doing, and with my most recent 5x7 prints I was getting a similar effect on the border. I will be switching to an acid stop bath from now on personally.

Thanks! I may try that.

Stains on border Ilford Art 300, quid?

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