Stainless steel dark room trays?

removedacct3 · Jul 23, 2023

Hi, I am looking for a simple answer to a simple question. Perhaps a silly question. Is there a reason not to use stainless steel dark room trays? Most of them are plastic. Some are made of enameled steel. But why not stainless steel?

Nicholas Lindan · Jul 23, 2023

SS trays are the best there are. SS trays are also much more expensive. Some think they are worth it. Some of the plastic trays I have are 60 years old and still going strong, not sure what SS's extra lifetime will buy me.

AnselMortensen · Jul 23, 2023

The communal darkroom of my junior college had stainless steel trays.
They're student-proof.

Ian C · Jul 23, 2023

Here are some stainless steel trays at B&H.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Developing-Trays/ci/772/N/4077265376?filters=fct_exterior-material_3141:stainless-steel

Certain solutions containing salts or acid in sufficient concentration could still cause corrosion.

Don_ih · Jul 23, 2023

I have three stainless trays for up to 8x10. There seems to be no reason not to use them. I got them used, though, and they were stacked together so firmly I thought it would be impossible to separate them without ripping my nails off.

xkaes · Jul 23, 2023

They are heavy (have you ever tried to lift a 20x24" SS tray?) and expensive ($250 -- a GRAND for a set of four!).

If you need the exercise and/or can't find something better to spend your money on, GO FOR IT!!!

removedacct3 · Jul 23, 2023

xkaes said:
If you need the exercise and/or can't find something better to spend your money on, GO FOR IT!!!

I was more thinking of something like this. Dutch only I'm afraid. In essence, industrial grade food trays.

https://www.makro.nl/marketplace/product/f2beb56e-8908-44ca-a9ad-ec1b97c892b6

Alan9940 · Jul 23, 2023

I have three 11x14 Arkay stainless steel trays that I've used continuously in the darkroom since the late 70's. Still going strong! What I like about using these trays is that they are easy to clean, don't stain (though certain acids will cause rust), and I can easily employ temperature control, if necessary. If you invest in some, make sure it's the type of stainless made for photo chemicals. IIRC, it's called 316 stainless, though please don't quote me on that.

eli griggs · Jul 23, 2023

xkaes said:
They are heavy (have you ever tried to lift a 20x24" SS tray?) and expensive ($250 -- a GRAND for a set of four!).

If you need the exercise and/or can't find something better to spend your money on, GO FOR IT!!!

So, sign up for a welding class at the local community college, as I did for making sculpture, other projects, and chances are, once you establish yourself as a reliable student to the instructor, buy/salvage SS and weld your trays at school on your own time.

You may have to take a second class, just to have continued shop access, but SS can be welded well with oxy/act (no the same level of eye danger that electric welding has and no special helmet) and costs are metal, rods, flux and maybe a tip or two.

If you want your own torch kit, the more complete Harris Iron Workers set up from Home Depot is a good one, and buy/rent gas & gas tanks for the job.

While you're at it, make some SS sheet film tanks, with or without lids, and, maybe, a washer or two, to sell and recoup your expenses.

Between now and Winter, you could build some very nice dark m kit.

Cheers,
Eli

Don_ih · Jul 23, 2023

MrclSchprs said:
I was more thinking of something like this. Dutch only I'm afraid. In essence, industrial grade food trays.

https://www.makro.nl/marketplace/product/f2beb56e-8908-44ca-a9ad-ec1b97c892b6

Those would be very good - and not heavy at all.

btaylor · Jul 23, 2023

I have a set of 3 11x14 stainless trays from the early ‘70’s. They are my preferred trays and are still like new. We had a metal shop in HS, a number of photo students chipped in and bought the stainless steel sheet stock (I think it was 316), cut it, notched it, used the big brake to bend it. The new machine shop teacher was a master TIG welder and he zapped the corners. They are joy to use. OTOH, I have black plastic trays from before the stainless ones were made and they are still intact as well. They just don’t bring up the same memories!

eli griggs · Jul 23, 2023

I may make a film line of SS tanks for 5"x7" film, as I have upgraded my one 5"x7" sheet film holder into eight, though one needs a new septum.

This will take my, when finished, 5"x7" pinhole camera further and, rather than just Ilford RC, allow for occasional film use, when available.

I have a full set of Kodak rubber tanks in 4"X5" and plenty of hangers, but if I need to, if I make the larger format's SS tanks, slightly larger in sequence, to 'nest' the entire set for space saving.

Whom here knows the best liked SS alloys for photochemical uses?

Rick A · Jul 24, 2023

xkaes said:
They are heavy (have you ever tried to lift a 20x24" SS tray?) and expensive ($250 -- a GRAND for a set of four!).

If you need the exercise and/or can't find something better to spend your money on, GO FOR IT!!!

I have a single 20x24 SS tray with a drain, I only have to tip it so the chems drain out through a tube into the appropriate container.

koraks · Jul 24, 2023

MrclSchprs said:
I was more thinking of something like this. Dutch only I'm afraid. In essence, industrial grade food trays.

https://www.makro.nl/marketplace/product/f2beb56e-8908-44ca-a9ad-ec1b97c892b6

Those look brilliant. Thanks for the heads-up

The only drawback I could imagine has already been mentioned:

Ian C said:
Certain solutions containing salts or acid in sufficient concentration could still cause corrosion.

This is indeed the case, but for most photo chemistry, it's not an issue. The only things that come to mind are hydrochloric/muriatic acid, but the only photographic use I occasionally have for it is as a component of a rehalogenating dichromate bleach (for chromium intensification). The other is ferric chloride, but I only use this for etching PCB's; I don't think it has any photographic use. Either will corrode most grades of stainless steel, but not if it's rinsed off quickly (and entirely, especially the ferric chloride).

Basically, just rinse and dry after a session and I don't foresee any problems at all. Give it a try with those trays and let us know how it works out.

xkaes · Jul 24, 2023

Rick A said:
I have a single 20x24 SS tray with a drain, I only have to tip it so the chems drain out through a tube into the appropriate container.

Normally when I think of darkroom tanks, I don't think of Panzers or Shermans. This discussion has changed my mind.

Kino · Jul 24, 2023

eli griggs said:
Whom here knows the best liked SS alloys for photochemical uses?

If you can find a copy of KODAK Publication No. K-12, "Construction Materials for Photographic
Processing Equipment", that is your best bet.

Monel Metal is preferred over Stainless Steel in motion picture processor construction, but it's also much more expensive.

Mr Bill · Jul 24, 2023

eli griggs said:
Whom here knows the best liked SS alloys for photochemical uses?

It's 316 SS. When welded 316L is preferred.

The best source of info is probably "The Handbook of Photographic Science and Engineering." First edition (1973?) by the SPSE, edited by Woodlief Thomas. Second edition (1997, I believe) by IS&T (same organization, new name), edited by Noel Proudfoot.

I think that Kodak K-12, per Kino, is a slightly abbreviated version of the same information, but I'm not certain.

eli griggs · Jul 24, 2023

Thanks everyone for the answers to the SS question.

I forgot to add, Ikea has SS table tops, about two inches thick, sold without legs and fixtures inside the upside down top that may serve as developing trays for low chemical processing.

I 'assume' because these look to be kitchen tops, that the SS is good grade, which I think is a good bet because of the Ikea quality control.

These are in different sizes, I do no know what size the one I bought on sale for a deep discount is, for another project, but folks may find what they want this way.

Cheers

Rick A · Jul 24, 2023

xkaes said:
Normally when I think of darkroom tanks, I don't think of Panzers or Shermans. This discussion has changed my mind.

Here's my 20x24 tray, actual interior dimensions are 22x26x3 inches. Also my 16x20 Cesco enameled tray, actual interior dimensions are 18.5x22.5x2.5 inches. I don't have room for multiples of either, nor do I see the need.

Don_ih · Jul 24, 2023

eli griggs said:
Ikea has SS table tops, about two inches thick, sold without legs and fixtures inside the upside down top that may serve as developing trays for low chemical processing.

That would likely be around 12-guage and incredibly heavy...

Steve Anchell · Jul 24, 2023

Developing tanks, both daylight and deep tank, and darkroom sinks have all been made of SS. However, enameled trays are not SS. Beneath the enamel is an inferior grade of iron-based metal that easily corrodes and can contaminate your processing solutions. Enameled trays should not be used with most toners for this reason.

Ian C · Jul 25, 2023

I learned to avoid metal trays and other implements in bleach-redevelopment sepia toning after spoiling two batches of prints with intense indigo specks. I checked my process and found that I had used an old Yankee polypropylene funnel with a stainless-steel neck strainer for handling the solutions. Most of my funnels have no strainer.

Then I reviewed the instructions on the Kodak Sepia Toning Kit. It says:

“Use only glass, unchipped enamel, plastic, or hard rubber trays. Do not use metal trays.”

The last sentence is in bold type, as I have reproduced it in the quotation.

I scrapped the solutions and mixed fresh, using only plastic funnels and so forth. No more indigo specks.

I have been careful to use only plastic implements since then for sepia toning. I have never had a recurrence of these print-ruining indigo specks. I think that the bleach reacted with the metal strainer, liberating some tiny particles into the solution. These specks were not visible until the print was placed into the sulfide toning bath.

I think the Kodak warning about enameled trays is too weak. No matter how "unchipped" such a tray might appear, it could still have some tiny, hard-to-see gaps in the enamel. At this remove, it seems unlikely that darkroom workers still use them. I won't.

Rick A · Jul 25, 2023

I don't use my metal or enameled trays for toning, only developing.

Alan9940 · Jul 25, 2023

Rick A said:
I don't use my metal or enameled trays for toning, only developing.

Same here. I use plastic for any toning sequence.

ole-squint · Jul 25, 2023

MrclSchprs said:
Hi, I am looking for a simple answer to a simple question. Perhaps a silly question. Is there a reason not to use stainless steel dark room trays? Most of them are plastic. Some are made of enameled steel. But why not stainless steel?

Back to your original question, there's no reason not to use them. They're food grade safe and of the same grade of stainless steel as Arkay trays. They're used on steam tables to hold food at a safe temperature (> 60C). They're also stamped as opposed to welded, so the corners are rounded rather than pointed. I've been using them for years, even for toning, without any problems. Another good reason is that they're larger than the photo industry mandated 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, etc., so you have more room to be able to grab the print or negative.
There's also a plastic food grade material made into trays like the SS ones. A little cheaper than SS, a lot cheaper than Cesco. And they don't stain.

Stainless steel dark room trays?

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