Stablizer ... difference?

jeriann3 · Sep 10, 2007

hello Experts ... here's a question I hope someone can shed light on...

I process my own 3-bath E6 (Arista Brand) .....(doesn't contain a stablizer in the kit) and 3-bath (actually 2-bath, plus stablizer Tetanol Press Kit C41)

Can the Stabilizer from the C41 kit be used to stabilize the developed E6 films?

I used to use Kodak 6-bath kit that came w/ a 'final rinse' and have some of that concentrate left... would this be better to stabilize the E6 with?

any advice much appreciated - jeri Ann

Photo Engineer · Sep 10, 2007

There are many types of stabilzer.

One type is photo flo + formalin. It was used up to about 3 or so years ago for all C41 and E6 films and could be interchanged. At this time, Kodak and Fuji switched over to a 'final rinse' bath which is photo flo + X which is proprietary.

The older stabilzer will work for all films, but the newer stabilzer can only be used for the intended process and with newer runs of films, due to changes in couplers.

Using no stabilzer or final rinse is a hazard to your pictures health.

PE

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 10, 2007

Ron, why is the stabilizer not necessary with RA-4 if it's necessary for C-41 ? Different dyes?

Photo Engineer · Sep 10, 2007

AFAIK, yes. At the time I worked on it, we used benzoic acid at pH 4.5 and formalin in EP3 stabilzer, then got rid of the formalin. Now, no stabilzer is used.

Of course, the couplers are different and a tiny speck of fungus may go unnoticed on a print. There are a lot of factors in this. Stabilzers such as formalin reacted with excess coupler in film to prevent stain and formation of leuco dye through a redox reaction.

PE

jeriann3 · Sep 11, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
There are many types of stabilzer.

One type is photo flo + formalin. It was used up to about 3 or so years ago for all C41 and E6 films and could be interchanged. At this time, Kodak and Fuji switched over to a 'final rinse' bath which is photo flo + X which is proprietary.

The older stabilzer will work for all films, but the newer stabilzer can only be used for the intended process and with newer runs of films, due to changes in couplers.

Using no stabilzer or final rinse is a hazard to your pictures health.

PE

Thanks for that info PE... good to know this. I do have the older E6 Kodak Final rinse on hand, so assume I can use that well w/ my transparency film. I cannot seem to find any info on how long this solution might be effective, anyone know? It was clear when I mixed it, turning a pale pink after using on some film

Discpad · Sep 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
AFAIK, yes. At the time I worked on it, we used benzoic acid at pH 4.5 and formalin in EP3 stabilzer, then got rid of the formalin. Now, no stabilzer is used.

Of course, the couplers are different and a tiny speck of fungus may go unnoticed on a print. There are a lot of factors in this. Stabilzers such as formalin reacted with excess coupler in film to prevent stain and formation of leuco dye through a redox reaction.

PE

Doesn't the formaldehyde in the stabilizer also harden the emulsion?

Discpad · Sep 14, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
AFAIK, yes. At the time I worked on it, we used benzoic acid at pH 4.5 and formalin in EP3 stabilzer, then got rid of the formalin. Now, no stabilzer is used.

Of course, the couplers are different and a tiny speck of fungus may go unnoticed on a print. There are a lot of factors in this. Stabilzers such as formalin reacted with excess coupler in film to prevent stain and formation of leuco dye through a redox reaction.

PE

Miconazole is also used in the Fuji stabilizers...

PHOTOTONE · Sep 14, 2007

Discpad said:
Doesn't the formaldehyde in the stabilizer also harden the emulsion?

While that "may" have been the case in E-4 or C-22 process, all modern films designed for C-41 and E-6 are pre-hardened. They do not need a hardener.

nworth · Sep 19, 2007

I've been bitten in the past by color film that was "correctly" processed but faded fairly quickly due to insufficient, improper, or inadequate stabilization. I understand that the new dyes and couplers work very well and produce a quite stable product using the proprietary final rinse solutions, but I am wary. Unfortunately, you don't see the effects of inadequate stabilization for several years. I've continued to use formaldehyde based stabilizers, since they have been reliable in the past, and I don't really trust the third party products that don't use formaldehyde. I'm now not sure if the "X" in the Kodak final rinse is a requirement to stabilize the new dyes or just an enhancement to the rinse; can I continue to use formaldehyde and still get a stable product?

argus · Sep 19, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Using no stabilzer or final rinse is a hazard to your pictures health.PE

Thanks for that very fine line, PE.

I use the Tetenal E6 3bath kit and never saw any reference in the manual to a final rinse after the stabiliser, i.e. not in the Dutch version of the manual: "stabilising happens outside the tank. 1 minute" but no further description of a final rinse...

I found this very strange and (luckily) decided to always do a rinse after the stabiliser.

Thanks for the confirmation.

G

Photo Engineer · Sep 19, 2007

Hey, do not ever rinse a film in water after using the manufacturers recommended stabilizer or final rinse chemistry.

A dip in water as a rinse, or a dip in plain photo flo will undo the benefits of any stabilzer.

If my statement was unclear in that previous post, I apologize.

PE

Discpad · Sep 19, 2007

argus said:
I use the Tetenal E6 3bath kit and never saw any reference in the manual to a final rinse after the stabiliser, i.e. not in the Dutch version of the manual: "stabilising happens outside the tank. 1 minute" but no further description of a final rinse...

I found this very strange and (luckily) decided to always do a rinse after the stabiliser.
G

PE is 1000% correct -- You'll wash off the preservative residue if you rinse after stabilizing!

Stablizer ... difference?

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