Spursinn HCD. 51200 ISO developer.

Matthew Wagg · Mar 4, 2013

In another thread I mentioned Spursinn HCD http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/spursinn-hcd-2s-100ml-3441-p.asp

Well it seems a blogger in the UK has had a bit of movement with the stuff.

http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/2013/03/the-lowdown-on-spursinn-hcd.html

I haven't developed any films with the stuff yet but now the weather is less awful, I'm gonna grab some and see what it can do.

nicholai · Mar 4, 2013

But... this amounts to... 3GBP pr 120 roll at 1:29? (My tank says 590ml pr roll)

AgX · Mar 4, 2013

Matthew Wagg said:
Well it seems a blogger in the UK has had a bit of movement with the stuff.

http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/2013/03/the-lowdown-on-spursinn-hcd.html

That blogger is a fellow from Apug...

pentaxuser · Mar 4, 2013

Thanks for that. The online darkroom is a new site and well worth a look. The comparison between TMax 400 in 4x5 in one developer and the same shot with a much slower ortho film but in 35mm and another developer is amazing in terms of how close in the blown up crop the 35mm come to 4x5.

There may well be something of a break through here by Spursinn but the crucial pics we need to see is say a 400 film like Tmax at 400, 800, 1600,3200 and say 6400 compared to say D3200 at the same ratings.

If TMax 400 in Spursinn can match say D3200 at even 1600 in tonal range and still maintain its grain which is finer by a mile compared to D3200 then this stuff will really look to be a winner

pentaxuser

Namir · Mar 4, 2013

I searched for results on flickr some time ago... and found a handfull photos of people saying it was tri-x / hp5 rated at 6400 (some of them were quite OK, some looked quite underexposed...) one single picture claiming to be a Tri-X pushed to 12800 (under daylight conditions) and several pics that are said to be Delta 3200 rated at 25600...
I somehow do not really belief, you can rate any available bw-film at 25.600 (not to speak about 51.200), use this Spürsinn stuff and get non-lomo results.... (I would be happy to be proven wrong)

pentaxuser · Mar 4, 2013

It is why we need users to test the stuff. An open mind is needed. I hadn't realised that it was only as recently as 1979 that a new thing in music was launched. It was called the CD. I wonder what we'd have said about that on the music equivalent of APUG at the launch

pentaxuser

presspass · Mar 14, 2013

Two questions. First, is this available in the U.S. or must it be ordered from either the U.K. or Germany? Second, has anyone other than the manufacturer actually used it to push film? Thanks.

pentaxuser · Mar 14, 2013

I'd be amazed if Ilford isn't in the process of testing this developer in the same way that Ford will buy a rival's new car and strip it down to see what makes it tick.

Has Spursinn found a combination of chemicals that represents a breakthrough. It remains to be seen

pentaxuser

Athiril · Mar 14, 2013

The concept of pre-developing is nothing new I would think.

You can use a pre-developer for either low contrast and compensating amplification of the latent image without getting to visible density, so the secondary/normal developer has more to work with, or vice versa.

Eg. Weak phenidone pre-developer, high contrast 2nd developer. Or weak high contrast first developer, low contrast 2nd developer, etc.

Photo Engineer · Mar 14, 2013

To get the true speed of a film, draw a straight line extended out from the B+F to infinity. This is done using the H&D curve. Then, note the deviation point of that H&D curve from the straight line. This is the inflection point of the emulsion and is the maximum point at which this emulsion can register an image. It is called "threshold speed".

Translate that into speed using standard methods and you get the max speed of that product.

Now, create a developer that swings the curve on that single point and you have a developer than can approach that speed point. At this time, the maximum threshold speed ever achieved is 25,000. These materials were never sold.

Unless the MSDS is published, it will remain to be seen if this new developer works well.

PE

Newt_on_Swings · Mar 14, 2013

I think we will only get a MSDS if they bring it over to the US for sale, I am not sure of what the equivalent would be for Germany or the UK, but I think there maybe be something of that sort to outline whatever is in their solution. Two bath developers are nothing new and many work quite well, but so far this one seems to be lots of hype that I hope it lives up to.

ntenny · Mar 14, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
To get the true speed of a film, draw a straight line extended out from the B+F to infinity. This is done using the H&D curve. Then, note the deviation point of that H&D curve from the straight line. This is the inflection point of the emulsion and is the maximum point at which this emulsion can register an image. It is called "threshold speed".

Translate that into speed using standard methods and you get the max speed of that product.

Now, create a developer that swings the curve on that single point and you have a developer than can approach that speed point. At this time, the maximum threshold speed ever achieved is 25,000. These materials were never sold.

Thanks for this explanation---it's something I've long wondered about. If I understand correctly, this is basically the speed that follows from the principle that the most you can do is develop to completion, right?

I imagine the threshold speeds of common materials (like the one that starts with a T and ends with an X400) must be known in the industry---is there any way for us outsiders to find out what they are?

-NT

Athiril · Mar 15, 2013

You can find out the minimum exposure it takes to produce a detectable change on the negative (first exposure that provides density above film base density) in your camera + developing combination (whether push or not) using a densitometer.

Photo Engineer · Mar 15, 2013

Dan is correct.

Using a step scale, such as a Macbeth Color Checker, you can expose correctly, and then figure out the threshold speed just by looking at the curve from this. Then, assuming ISO 400 from the straight line, you can guesstimate the maximum speed by the method Dan has described. Just look at the first detectable image and then measure the number of stops that this takes place at, vs the mid scale.

This is the threshold speed and is the max that can be obtained from that film by any means.

PE

jdhealey · May 18, 2014

trial packs of HCD-2 and HCD-2 and -S

are currently on offer at http://www.keyphoto.com/shop/ and both Keyphoto and AG photographic in the K will mail order Spursinn photo chemistry.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · May 19, 2014

Pope Benedict used it with Leica Ia and he says he saw god in deep space , such a good developer I will use it to 100 000 asa to catch the monkeys tails when they are jumping tree to tree at night

ambaker · May 19, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Unless the MSDS is published, it will remain to be seen if this new developer works well.

PE

MSDS is so 15 minutes ago...

MSDS is on it's way to the history pages. SDS, Standardized Data Sheets, are the new hot thing.

Difference? Many other countries, including the EU, have bought into it, and it will simplify shipping chemicals in commerce between countries.

MSDS will be gone by December 1,2015, with supply line phase out by June 1, 2016.

All part of the GHS Globally Harmonized System.

So we may still be able to get info.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

AgX · Jun 23, 2014

The actual manufacturer of that HDC-2 new meanwhile outed themselves. It is, not surprisingly, SPUR.

They now stated that the speed of up to EV 51.2000 to be gained, as stated by Spürsinn would be exaggerated.
It rather would be ISO (this case) 1000 for Tri-X, whereas with a product they market themselves they gain ISO 1600.

But in an interview last year one of the owners/researchers behind Spur stated that HDC-2 new indeed would gain that speed of 51.200 for Tri-X for practical use under extreme lighting conditiions.

Maybe those two statements (both published by Spur in a díspute with Spürsinn) are a case of wording I do not quite understand. But nevertheless such statements are frustrating.

miha · Jun 23, 2014

AgX said:
The actual manufacturer of that HDC-2 new meanwhile outed themselves. It is, not surprisingly, SPUR.

Does SPUR manufacture at all? It is my impression they do the research part but the manufacture is handed over to a third party.

AgX · Jun 23, 2014

I have no information about a third party being involved.

miha · Jun 24, 2014

I didn't know SPUR own any mfg of packaging facilities at all.

AgX · Jun 24, 2014

What size of plant do you expect?

miha · Jun 24, 2014

I don't think it's about the size, the amount they produce can easily be mfg in a garage I imagine, it's to comply with regulation like the newest REACH... too expensive on a micro-scale I would think.

AgX · Jun 24, 2014

pssst...

jdhealey · Oct 7, 2014

Spursinn chemistry now available direct to the public in UK from http://www.keyphoto.com/shop/shop/chemicals

Spursinn HCD. 51200 ISO developer.

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