Spraying negatives with varnish?

sperera · Apr 9, 2018

....a friend of mine told me of how in the old days the lab used to spray his negatives with a varnish on the emulsion side.....in order to reduce grain for printing purposes etc? does or has anyone heard of this????
Edited: probably not to reduce grain

AgX · Apr 9, 2018

Not to reduce grain, that would not work. But to eliminate scratches.

There had been at least two potions on the marked. One was an oil that was wiped onto the negative and wiped off again after printing, the other was a fast hardening lacquer with a high volatile solvent one dipped the negative in, and that was permanent. The solvent was available seperately to thin again the laquer after use or to wipe off the varnish after hardening if necessary.

halfaman · Apr 9, 2018

Never Heard about it, but doesn't sound good to me. Seems like a diffusion effect that would soften the whole image in order to reduce the graininess.

avb · Apr 9, 2018

Edwal No-Scratch is a product still available that fills in scratches on negatives.
You can also use the oil on the bottom sides of your nose to do this.
I never heard of using a laquer to reduce grain.

AgX · Apr 9, 2018

That No-Scratch is the oil I hinted at, I still have my bottle from 1976. But I did not assume it is still available.

The lacquer surved the same purpose, plus it added protection against future scratching and chemical/biological harm to the emulsion.

Kino · Apr 9, 2018

Lacquer treatments were very common on motion picture negatives, and even positives, to try to reduce scratches. While it could be effective, it also came with a whole new host of problems; uneven application, runs, "shorelining" around perforations, peeling, etc...

Also, the base could be "polished" using a glass drum and an acetone-based formula. Photomec in England still makes a base polishing machine for motion picture use...

http://www.photomec.co.uk/filmpolisher.html

E. von Hoegh · Apr 9, 2018

AgX said:
That No-Scratch is the oil I hinted at, I still have my bottle from 1976. But I did not assume it is still available.

The lacquer surved the same purpose, plus it added protection against future scratching and chemical/biological harm to the emulsion.

Didn't collodion plates get varnished sometimes?

AgX · Apr 9, 2018

chip j · Apr 9, 2018

Wow, I could use an emulsion-side oil to give brilliance to my cheap lens negatives..

AgX · Apr 9, 2018

The same oil for sure would give brilliance to a bad hairdo too...

DREW WILEY · Apr 9, 2018

Scanning fluid and an immersion carrier. Then cleanup afterwards. No thanks.

Gerald C Koch · Apr 9, 2018

If you have ever used varnish you know hat it is impossible to keep dust off the wet finish. So this sounds like a very bad idea. Now years ago FB prints were varnished using a VErY dilute solution. The coating was so thin that dust would not adhere. AA describes the method in The Print, 1st Ed.

NedL · Apr 9, 2018

AgX said:
The same oil for sure would give brilliance to a bad hairdo too...

See... you just never know what will happen on photrio. End of a long day working, I'm tired, and that was good for a laugh.

trendland · Apr 10, 2018

It's no real good idea. Never let anything come onto your developed negatives.The oil AGX mentioned was also used for scanning negatives in the early days (drum scanning) ....negatives were fixed with tape (not realy good removable) to the drum. Between drum and film the oil gave pretty contact.But you have to know : The often procedure these days was to give the film negative into scratch after scanning.with regards

trendland · Apr 10, 2018

chip j said:
Wow, I could use an emulsion-side oil to give brilliance to my cheap lens negatives..

That is a possible method too.Just use the oil direct onto your lens surface......
with regards

BAC1967 · Apr 10, 2018

Filmgaurd is a product for motion picture film that lubricates and cleans the film for projection. It can hide scratches, especially if it's used for wet projection. Most motion picture film cleaners use a paraffin wax that stays on the film for lubrication. I use one called FilmRenew that can also help with dried out film making it more pliable. I don't use these products on still film because I just don't see the need.

amateur_trombonist · Apr 17, 2018

I remember trying baby oil - a small amount across the scratch. It did the job. I only tried it out on a b+w negative and only a time or two. That was about 44 yrs ago. This technique was in "The Amateur Photographer's Handbook" on p.368. (8th edition).
For color negs I have eliminated most minor scratch and dust spot issues by putting a diffusing material such as frosted acetate just above the negative holder.

Marcelo Paniagua · Apr 17, 2018

avb said:
...
You can also use the oil on the bottom sides of your nose to do this.
...

For real?

BrianShaw · Apr 17, 2018

Marcelo Paniagua said:
For real?

Yup... an old school approach.

Kino · Apr 17, 2018

Nose grease. Works...

BAC1967 · Apr 17, 2018

Marcelo Paniagua said:
For real?

It's also used to lubricate the pressure plate in movie cameras.

trendland · Apr 19, 2018

BAC1967 said:
It's also used to lubricate the pressure plate in movie cameras.

Don't let this old fashioned method hear your director of photography(in charge of). Exeption : You are this person. ....

"Baby oil" may have been the right stuff in war times (no support with urgent needed stuff sometimes).
A good improvisation method.....
but don't let it hear to others.
with regards
PS : .....during military exercises I realy did not like wheapon oil (to clean a riffle) it cost me just one time I wasn't allowed to get a free weekend. From this experience I used hair shampoo to clean my rifle.After this procedure I oiled it with fresh wheapon oil. No one had ever seen such clean rifles.
There have been massive doubts from drill sergeant but no evidence because I never let other people hear this - you are the first one

trendland · Apr 19, 2018

It was a real expensive shampoo and hot water of course......

with regards

Arklatexian · Apr 19, 2018

Gerald C Koch said:
If you have ever used varnish you know hat it is impossible to keep dust off the wet finish. So this sounds like a very bad idea. Now years ago FB prints were varnished using a VErY dilute solution. The coating was so thin that dust would not adhere. AA describes the method in The Print, 1st Ed.

This negative varnish that is being talked about is not a liquid that was sold to coat a negative (forgotten which side) so when dried, the negative had a "tooth" which the graphite retouching leads would adhere to is it? I remember seeing old prints that had been lacquered as the final step of finishing........Regards!

AgX · Apr 19, 2018

The varnish I had it about was intended for filling scratches. In addition it added mechanical biological protection. It was made by Tetenal and called Repolisan. I still got a bottle.

Spraying negatives with varnish?

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