spotting toned sepia/gold prints

catem · Mar 9, 2007

I am printing a number of dual-toned sepia/gold prints and wonder what is the best way of retouching a few small dust spots. I only have the original spotone 3-ink set and am wondering whether to get the sepia (in the alternative 6-ink) which may be O.K. mixed for some, or go for the colour dyes, or pencils..... I have used glossy FB paper (Ilford WT) - I think I'm right in that dyes work O.K with glossy but oils maybe not so well. I am more worried about getting the colour right (which is in the spectrum yellow/orange/golden), and it's not a large area as e.g. with hand colouring, as I say, just dust spots - but I'd rather leave them than use the wrong thing.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2007

Cate, there used to be an excellent Photocolor Colour retouchng set, it may still be available from Paterson.

What ever you do don't use oils as they sit on the surface, and will be noticeable.

Ian

ann · Mar 9, 2007

you might try to find some spotting kits from Marshall's.

or check ebay for someone selling veronica cass spotting dyes, which come in a variety of "colors" that can be mixed and diluted to help with toned color shifts.
She retired a few years, but sold the existing stock, and it shows up on ebay on occasion.

catem · Mar 9, 2007

Ian, would that be the same as/similar to the Fotospeed dye kit? I'm not aware of a current Patterson one, but there could still be one...This is something for someone else to be done next week, so it's something I have to go out and get nowish!

catem · Mar 9, 2007

Ann - just seen your reply, thank you. I think I need both long-term and immediate solutions. Bad planning, I know....

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2007

Cate, the Fotospeed dyes would be similar.

If your interested I wrote something about toning and hand colouring prints a few years ago after giving a few lectures. There was a superb book on the technique by James Wedge as well.

Ian

catem · Mar 9, 2007

Thanks Ian - I'm always interested in articles and books.

I have Tim Rudman's book and Tony Worobiec's which have been a great source of information.

I'm assuming using the colour photodyes is similar in technique to using the regular spotone dyes, with which I'm very familiar, but any specific tips are more than welcome!

Ian Grant · Mar 9, 2007

Yes Cate the technique is identical.

Ian

haris · Mar 9, 2007

And if you don't mind I have question. I used Spotone and Tetenal Spotting Pens. I must say I allways had better results with Pens, it seems I never been able to make right shade with Spotone and apply it properly.

So, what is good resouce for learning how to use retouching dyes? Except of course practice, practice and allways practice (To paraphrase comrade Vladimir Iljic Lenin)...

Thanks

catem · Mar 9, 2007

haris,

I don't know about the colour dyes (obvious) but as far as spotone goes - don't know about resources, but as quick tips I'd say -

Always massively dilute with water in your saucer - I don't really go by the instructions, but use a really tiny amount of spotone to water & judge the colour by eye according to paper type/tone (the instructions aren't comprehensive enough anyway)

Build up slowly, start lighter - it's easy to go darker but not vice versa (though you can sponge the print with a natural sponge, this removes excess also) or wash it again (may not remove everything).

Have several prints you're working on at once so you can go from 'spot' to spot', building up slowly, so each 'spot' is drying between 'goes' at it - Patience is rewarded, don't try to rush it

Keep the dried up bits on your saucer for next time - they seem to work well.

Use a very fine brush. Don't overload the brush - wipe (brush) off excess on a spare bit of paper - the margin of a print you don't need.

If you're not sure of the colour/strength try it out on a bit of spare as above & allow to dry

Above all, don't be a perfectionist - some areas are easier than others (I'm sure you've found out!) it's enough if your eye is no longer drawn to the area.

What's really important - Do when you're NOT in a rush, taking time is the answer, and building up, - and deciding when enough is enough.

That's pretty quick and off the top of my head, I may have missed something.
I'll let you know how I get on with the colours

haris · Mar 9, 2007

Thank you Cate.

Yes, I meant about b/w spotting, not colour (even if I have Tetenal colour dyes for hand colouring b/w prints, tried, and gave up ). Funny, I was buying something and seller said my order was lower than theire lowest amount for shipping abroad. So, just to fill needed amount, I told them to include set of colour dyes, I thought, what the heck, let's try that too...

It seems that most of the times when I use Spotone, I get ink on edges of retouched area, but area needed to be retouched remains not touched bith inks With Tetenal spot pens that happens to me very rearly...

Who doesn't know what Tetenal pens are, try: http://www.tetenal.co.uk/products.php?cat_id=72 But, in times when I bought them they were lot cheaper

Well, as availability of some products can be issue, I start to not retouch some prints, thinking I will retouch only important ones, what if I spend spotting inks and they are no longer available... Paranoid, I know, I know...

fschifano · Mar 9, 2007

Cate's experience and technique with Spotone (now Marshall Spot All) dyes mirrors mine almost exactly. There is really nothing I can add to help things along except to emphasize the part about going very slowly and not attempting to attain perfection. The Tetenal color dyes present what might be an interesting possibility for spotting toned prints. While a agree that any sort of wholesale tinting of the print is not practical and maybe not even do-able. If both are water based dyes mixing small portions of color dyes into the spotting dye might help you achieve the exact color you need to get the job done.

Dave Miller · Mar 10, 2007

Cate,
Assuming the spots to be dealt with are small then it more a case of disguising the faults than obliterating them. With that in mind complete colour or tone accuracy is not required. I assume that you are going to practice on a duff print first, although from you later post it seems that you have done plenty before. Like you I always aim to have a lighter tone and a lighter shade than the area I'm trying to match. For colour matching, water colour paints may be employed. Colour spotting dyes appear on ebay, but I doubt that you will need them.

catem · Mar 10, 2007

Dave Miller said:
Cate,
For colour matching, water colour paints may be employed. Colour spotting dyes appear on ebay, but I doubt that you will need them.

I had wondered about this. Will water colours work on glossy paper O.K? The amount of work needed is really very small (I wouldn't bother if the print was just for me) and getting the whole range of colour dyes for this does seem a bit OTT - but as I said before, am prepared to do it rather than spoil it. All the other toning I've done I've managed through using regular spotone combinations, as you say, distraction from the area is enough. I'll certainly try watercolours if that would work...

tim rudman · Mar 10, 2007

catem said:
haris,

Always massively dilute with water in your saucer - use a really tiny amount of spotone to water & judge the colour by eye according to paper type/tone

Build up slowly, start lighter -

Keep the dried up bits on your saucer for next time - they seem to work well.

Use a very fine brush. Don't overload the brush - wipe (brush) off excess on a spare bit of paper - the margin of a print you don't need.

If you're not sure of the colour/strength try it out on a bit of spare as above & allow to dry

Above all, don't be a perfectionist - it's enough if your eye is no longer drawn to the area.

What's really important - deciding when enough is enough.

Sounds like you have the technique buttoned down perfectly Cate (I've edited yours down a bit) -I do exactly the same.
I would add another useful ploy - as the spots darken slightly as they dry and as too little is by far preferable to too much - I always stop before the job is done on a spot and move on to another, working round the print. Then I go round again a re-spot any that I can still find. Most of the ones I was going to re-spot cannot be found. As Dave says, accuracy is not required.
I have both the Tetenal spotting dyes and the Fotospeed spotting dyes. Both are excellent. Either will match any toning colour you can produce on your prints - and they will last a lifetime so you don't need to be paranoid about them being discontinued.
Tim

Dave Miller · Mar 10, 2007

AS ever Cate try anything new to you on a spare print, never on one to be solld or exhibited. Water based anything should be ok on FB paper, after all everything else we throw at it is.

catem · Mar 10, 2007

Thanks very much Tim (I was kind of hoping you might drop by ). You're right, I've had my spotone for 8 years and looks like they'll outlast me. No need for false economy.

Thanks Dave, I'll maybe give it a try on a spare print.

spotting toned sepia/gold prints

haris

haris

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