Spotting Glossy Prints

I am not very good at spotting prints and I am wondering if, in addition to my basic ineptitude, the problem is glossy paper. I can't seem to get the dye INTO the paper. It sort of sits on top. Would matte paper be more porous?

is the paper RC or fiber paper?

fiber is much easier than RC whether glossy or matt.

Sorry, it is Ilford MG IV fibre.

Matte paper is much easier to spot. It is often hard to see where you've actualy spotted. With glossy, I'd rather reprint than have to do any major spotting. The gloss difference between the paper and the spotted area isn't that bad under glass, though.

Mark Fisher said:

Matte paper is much easier to spot. It is often hard to see where you've actualy spotted. With glossy, I'd rather reprint than have to do any major spotting. The gloss difference between the paper and the spotted area isn't that bad under glass, though.

Click to expand...

Spotting can become something of an addiction. Fibre papers are definitely much easier to work with, but there is a real satisfaction to quietly working away at any paper. It's easy to overdo it, though. I find the best approach is not to aim for loupe-perfect prints. In spotting prints, (especially glossy or RC papers) sometimes less is definitely more. The advice I was given, and which I have seen in posts here more than once is to keep your viewing distance in mind. If your prints are meant to be viewed at three feet, aim for prints that are clean at that distance.

Cheers,

Don Wallace said:

I am not very good at spotting prints and I am wondering if, in addition to my basic ineptitude, the problem is glossy paper. I can't seem to get the dye INTO the paper. It sort of sits on top. Would matte paper be more porous?

Click to expand...

Glossy fiber paper is easy to spot. I used to use Spot tone and a variety od fine brushes. Use a lighter color then the area you are spotting and gradually build up the density a little at a time. I also used engineering pencils of various hardnesses to spot prints as well as negatives. Once the print is spotted to your satisfaction use a light spray of gloss photospray to hide the spotting work.

If the dye isn't absorbing in the photo you may be using hard water to wash and may need to apply Photoflo before dryine the print.

Cheers
Michael

In Steve Anchell's book, The Darkroom Cookbook (Third Edition), John Sexton writes on page 100 about using steam to deal with spotting marks and other surface defects. His theory is that steaming"...micro-swells the upper layer of the gelatin, thus minimizing or sometimes completely eliminating any surface evidence of the dye's application.".

I haven't tried this yet, but it Does sound promising!

Have to go to work now, but I'll add more details later if nobody else does.

Murray

mikeb380 said:

.... I also used engineering pencils of various hardnesses to spot prints as well as negatives...

Click to expand...

Same here. I've found that the pencil spotting does a better job (especially on paper with tooth, like semi-matte) with less chance of destroying the work, and it's reversible.

Also, it's an easy method if you fill in a spot by making little dots instead of rubbing on the surface.

I am lucky enough to have some spotone dyes. For my method, I actually use cocktail sticks rather than brushes. I find the sharp points take up water and dye very well.I then use a technique where I dab the point in water first, quickly blot it then add some spotone of the right color and dab it on sparingly and build up density. It works very well.

I've been useing a sharpened wood toothpick lately...soak it to soften a bit...dab in spotone, apply under magnifying lamp.
Once pressed in seal after that, I see no signs of it.

I have one remaining bottle of Spottone. I use two different brushes - one is the smallest spotting brush I could find in an art store and the other is a small one that's been trimmed down. The trimmed one I got in college and may have been intended for use in spotting prints (there's no name or any numbers on it). I think I cut off about 60% of the bristles.
I use the idea that you can always add more, but cannot take away any and I start with pretty light grey dye then gradually darken it.
Viewing distance definitely comes into play. If I look at my prints from 6 inches away, I can find every single spot usually. If I look from 2 feet even on an 11x14 (which is still pretty close), I usually can't see what I did unless I screwed up.
With fiber, I've never had a problem with it sitting on top, but I do with RC.

Andrew,
I have a full set of spotone dyes (6 bottles) complete with instructions and mixing chart. Some bottles are now only partially full even though they were not used, or opened, much. Can they be mixed with water? They're about 10 or 12 years old. I also have as set of spot-off (2 bottles bleach, 1 bottle accelerator - w/eyedroppers) and know that the bleach has a shelf life (the reason I have two bottles). Do you think they're still good?

I also have a bottle of Kodak retouching fluid (turpentine & petroleum distillates) that has a small brush attached to the cap. I'm not sure what it's used for. I do very little, if any, retouching.

Paul

PS. I also have a full 14 bottle set of colorprint retouch colors - the color spotones - made by the same company. I'll be using them for hand tinting FB prints.

There is also a product called wondersol flexible retouch medium, a multiple use liquid, and something else called opaque. I think these are used together (these I don't have).

I am still practising and I am getting somewhere, if slowly. I started using sharpened toothpicks (thanks for the suggestion) and that seems to work a little better for me. One of the things that still throws me is the classic tiny pure white dot. If it is in a sea of black, I can get rid of it, but on a face it is very difficult. I spot slowly, a dot at a time, and I always wind up with the same thing: the same damn almost pure white dot surrounded by a ring of density darker than the face, more obvious than when I started!

Another thing: I am using Marshall's Spot-All but the neutral black has a lot of blue in it, in my opinion. I suppose that won't really matter in very tiny amounts. Or will it? Is Spottone still available and if so, do I need it? Are there other, more neutral blacks?

panastasia, you can revitalize spotone dyes. The seals in the lids to become a little worn and the water evaporates. I refilled mine with distilled water after not using them for approximately 10 years. they work fine.

Don Wallace said:

I spot slowly, a dot at a time, and I always wind up with the same thing: the same damn almost pure white dot surrounded by a ring of density darker than the face, more obvious than when I started!
...

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I've found... any advice? I find the white just stays white and a ring builds up around the damn dot. Very irritating.

Some hints for using Spotone..

From the makers instructions : (paraphrased) : hard emulsions which prevent the dye being absorbed should be swabbed with an Alka-Seltzer solution (one "blue box" tablet in 8oz water). Let the solution dry before retouching.

Letting the dye evaporate on a clean saucer makes mixing and diluting much more controllable.
If you are getting a ring of dye around your white speck you either have the hard emulsion problem or your aim is off. Try using a powerful magnifier to zero in on the target.

Don Wallace said:

I am still practising and I am getting somewhere, if slowly. I started using sharpened toothpicks (thanks for the suggestion) and that seems to work a little better for me. One of the things that still throws me is the classic tiny pure white dot. If it is in a sea of black, I can get rid of it, but on a face it is very difficult. I spot slowly, a dot at a time, and I always wind up with the same thing: the same damn almost pure white dot surrounded by a ring of density darker than the face, more obvious than when I started!

Another thing: I am using Marshall's Spot-All but the neutral black has a lot of blue in it, in my opinion. I suppose that won't really matter in very tiny amounts. Or will it? Is Spottone still available and if so, do I need it? Are there other, more neutral blacks?

Click to expand...

Good advice so far in regards to spotting. Spotting is a bit of an acquired talent. Practice makes perfect. Use the smallest spotting brush (art stores) you can find. Spot using a "stippling" effect with a lighter dye than you think the problem area requires, diluted with distilled water. Stop BEFORE you think you've got it licked (if licking helps you ). As mentioned, you can drive yourself insane attempting to spot to "perfection" - whatever that is. Spot only to remove the offending region from a "normal" viewing distance, in normal light. The way I accomplish this is to wear strong 99¢ eyeglasses, under strong light while spotting. I remove the glasses to inspect the print. If the problem has disappeared - I'm done! I was finally "cured" of any lingering doubts regarding the need to "spot to perfection" after viewing an original Ansel Adams print, Trees and Cliffs of Eagle Peak, Winter, YNP, which was literally peppered with white dots originating from a problem negative.

I believe many people who profess to hate glossy, preferring only matte papers, are reacting to glossy's revelation of anything but good exercise of technique both in the making of a negative and the execution of a fine print.

When spotting a glossy print I always use a wetting agent in the water used to wet the brush and pick up the dye. Use a white watercolor pallet or plate and brush the color on the white surface to find a tone a little lighter than the area surrounding the area to be spotted on the print and then work in stages until the spotted area is just slightly lighter than the surrounding area. When satisfied with the result, steam the area and let it air dry. When finished, lightly buff the spotted area with a piece of silk scarf and watch the spot disappear even when the print is held at an angle. Just take your time and quit just before you think the tones match. Remember, it's a lot easier to add the spotting dye than it is to remove it.
Denise Libby

I regularely spot glossy RC papers with Spotone. I use the finest brush I could find, which is a 00000 Delta. "100% pre red sable" is marked.
Therewith I don't paint but really spot - I make tiny dots. I mix the right gray of Spotone at a piece of porcelaine, and I try to start with a slightly to light grey. If you made a too dark spot it is hard to remove. I use a 3x loupe for spotting and start in the inner parts of the white dots. If I am not finished a light (not a dark) ring is remaining.