Spool for 116 film? (wider than 120)

walter23 · Mar 14, 2009

I found an old roll of 116 film in an ancient Kodak folder. Any suggestions for developing it? I have a patterson universal tank & reel but I think it only extends to 120 size, and it looks like the 116 is wider.

I've sloshed rolls around in a tank before without a spool but of course they get scratched all to hell (did it out of frustration once when I was new at loading reels and couldn't get the thing to load no matter what I tried), so I don't think I want to do that with an ancient roll of film with unknown treasures (or trash ) hiding on it.

Nick Zentena · Mar 14, 2009

You're asking about a reel? 116/616 reels and tanks used show on Ebay all the time. Nobody would build on them [old and not rare enough to be collected] so tend to be sell for little. Expect to pay more for shipping then the item.

If you want new check any of the threads on 70mm film. The cheapest will be a X-ray reel. Less then $10 plus shipping. But they are big. I guess the Hewes would be the nicests if you like SS but I doubt if it makes sense for one roll.

nemo999 · Mar 14, 2009

walter23 said:
I found an old roll of 116 film in an ancient Kodak folder. Any suggestions for developing it? I have a patterson universal tank & reel but I think it only extends to 120 size, and it looks like the 116 is wider.

I've sloshed rolls around in a tank before without a spool but of course they get scratched all to hell (did it out of frustration once when I was new at loading reels and couldn't get the thing to load no matter what I tried), so I don't think I want to do that with an ancient roll of film with unknown treasures (or trash ) hiding on it.

Yes, you can find a tank for 116 without too much trouble - but it's not too hard to develop a roll of film in a dish (about 50 mm deep or more) by putting a clip on each end and using a see-saw motion (lowering one end and simultaneously raising the other, then reversing, etc.). Amateurs used to do this all the time!

Nicholas Lindan · Mar 14, 2009

Try an old FR or Yankee adjustable plastic reel & tank. I had an FR that would take 116/616, but that was 50 years ago.

I have been told the plastic used in the translucent FR reels becomes brittle with age.

fotch · Mar 14, 2009

If you have a darkroom, do it the old fashion way. Set up 3 trays with chemicals, put film clips (optional) on the end of the rolls, turn off all lights, and sea saw the film in the trays.

While this is easier with ortho film with a red safe light, you can do it in the dark with some attention to detail. You only have to do one roll, right?

Good Luck

pentaxuser · Mar 14, 2009

They appear only very rarely on e-bay in the U.K. as well. In the Paterson range you've got to go back to about 1963 as a a manufacture date to get the System II tank as it was called. However they do sell quite cheaply assuming of course that a tank that old hasn't got problems. I did a bit of research on this and discovered that 116 film was last manufactured in about 1968. So as fotch says you could be paying for a tank for a one-off development.

If you placed the roll in a multi-tank without a reel, trying to keep the roll from touching other parts of the roll would the developer as a liquid hold the roll sufficiently apart to ensure even development? You might need to keep it apart with your fingers on the edges so total darkness would still be the order of the day but may be easier than trays and use less developer and fix.

Good luck

pentaxuser

Nick Zentena · Mar 14, 2009

I bet you could make something like a film apron up instead of a reel. Can't think what you'd use for the apron. :confused: Bubble wrap?

MattKing · Mar 14, 2009

I expect that the 120 film aprons would work in a pinch.

The instructions to one of my Kodakraft tanks do indicate, however, that a 116/616 apron was available as an optional accessory.

By the way, the see-saw method referred to in fotch's post above was the method that I used to develop my first rolls of film, and coincidentally they too were 616.

I'm sure I could pick up the technique again - it has only been 40+ years since then .

Matt

Francis in VT · Mar 14, 2009

A film this old would have to be orthochromatic. It should say so on the backing paper. If you do NOT see the word PAN on the paper I would assume it to be ortho which can be developed with a RED safelight.
Good luck, this is the way I started probably around 1946. When EK changed the Verichrome to Verichrome PAN I had to get a tank.

MattKing · Mar 14, 2009

Francis in VT said:
A film this old would have to be orthochromatic. It should say so on the backing paper. If you do NOT see the word PAN on the paper I would assume it to be ortho which can be developed with a RED safelight.
Good luck, this is the way I started probably around 1946. When EK changed the Verichrome to Verichrome PAN I had to get a tank.

Kodak didn't discontinue 116 and 616 until 1984, so the film could very well be panchromatic.

Certainly the Verichrome Pan 616 I used when I was young (1967?) was panchromatic.

Matt

Francis in VT · Mar 15, 2009

OK Matt, ya got me. You are probably younger and your memory might be better.;-)

The big question here is still what does the backing paper say on the film that Walter23 asked about.

fotch · Mar 15, 2009

When is doubt, keep lights out.

walter23 · Mar 15, 2009

Francis in VT said:
A film this old would have to be orthochromatic. It should say so on the backing paper. If you do NOT see the word PAN on the paper I would assume it to be ortho which can be developed with a RED safelight.
Good luck, this is the way I started probably around 1946. When EK changed the Verichrome to Verichrome PAN I had to get a tank.

Heh, I hadn't even thought of that! Unfortunately I just looked at the reel, and it is Verichrome panchromatic. On the bright side it has development times (7 mins in D76. I have ID-11 which is pretty much the same formula, I hear, so...). Any adjustments to development recommended to deal with an old film like this?

And by the see-saw method, do you mean you hold each end of the film in each hand, and move your hands alternately up and down to "roll" the film through the tray of developer, back and forth, like someone handling one of those juggling balls on a string (diabolo I think they're called)?

fotch · Mar 16, 2009

Yep, old photo books show it as a method. I would keep the 3 trays a couple of inches apart, and practice with either old film or a strip of adding machine paper (?) in the daylight first with plain water.

If you have a timer, perhaps you can surround the face with cardboard in such a way that its like a lens hood, so you can see it and it won't fog your film. Or count.

mhcfires · Mar 19, 2009

I have some old VP122. It is 92mm wide, as opposed to the 70mm wide 116/616. I used three small plastic pails with about 1 liter of liquid in each one and used the see-saw method to develop my film. It is a pain, but it does work. Be sure to wear rubber gloves when doing this process. Good luck.

nack · Mar 30, 2009

I have not had much luck with Ebay. I have managed to use a spiral from a Yankee (master II, I think) by sliding the adjustable half past all the grooves and using a rubber band around the end of the center piece to keep it from falling off. Also, a Patterson spiral can be extended with a 1 1/4" PVC sink drain extension cut to fit (the 1.25" drain extension fits between the halves of the Patterson almost like that's what it was designed for). Either works OK for roll of 616 or about 1/3 of a 70mm. If you have to buy something, make it Patterson - the Yankee tank pretty much sucks and will explode into many little bits of plastic with little provocation.

mgb74 · Jul 17, 2009

A local shop here in Minneapolis area has a 116/616 stainless steel Nikor reel in original box. Marked $10. If anyone wants, I will buy it and ship it (all at cost). I expect $15-16 for reel, sales tax, and priority mail shipping in US.

Or, if you prefer, store is National Camera Exchange in Golden Valley, MN. 877.600.4497

Spool for 116 film? (wider than 120)

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Spool for 116 film? (wider than 120)

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