Splitting the XTol pack in smaller parts?

Helinophoto · Feb 20, 2012

Hi

Just purchased a 5 liter pack of XTol.

Normally I've used XTol in 1:1 solution.
I was thinking that I could open the bags and pour the powder into two glass-jars that I have and mark them "A" and "B".
I then think that I can weigh up the parts to make, say a 1 liter stock solution for use, based on the current weight of the contents in the "A" and "B" bags.

The reason for this, is that I really don't shoot so much that I am able to use 5 liters of stock XTol before it goes bad.

Any experiences in splitting up the package into smaller parts like this?
Is the powder able to stay fresh, as long as I only put them into some jars with lid on...?

I'd rather not ruin the powder, but I would think that it is more stable than having a stock solution standing around "forever".

Recommendations/warnings?

Leigh B · Feb 20, 2012

You should not divide powdered mixtures.

Many manufacturers' instructions state that specifically.

For example, the Acufine instruction sheet says: "Never mix partial container quantities."
The boldface is in the original document, and is the only text in the entire document rendered in bold.

The constituents will not be distributed evenly among the containers, no matter how you do it.

- Leigh

Helinophoto · Feb 20, 2012

Hm, ok....=)
I did some probing on google and found some interesting discussions on the subject. It didn't cross my mind that part A and B can themselves be made up from various ingredients and then, as you correctly pointed out, the distribution will not be uniform, internally, in "A" and "B".

I have space problems you see (in addition to not shooting a ton of photos), fridge and freezer already have more photostuff than food. =D

Neal · Feb 20, 2012

Dear Helinophoto,

I divide my Xtol into 250ml bottles and then store those bottles in the bucket I use to mix the developer in. If you use distilled water and glass or a quality plastic bottles, you will have no issues for at least a year. If you are not using 5L in one year, you need to make for images. ;>)

Neal Wydra

zsas · Feb 20, 2012

I do the same as Neal, easy peezy

NB23 · Feb 20, 2012

Why not develop the whole powder in, let's say, 2.5 litres as a stock solution? Then you can dilute 1:1 to get to the official stock solution just prior to developing?

Bob-D659 · Feb 20, 2012

Odds are it won't dissolve in half the volume, or if it does at an elevated temp, it will precipitate out as it cools and then you pitch it.

Helinophoto · Feb 20, 2012

I red somewhere that someone actually did use 2.5 liters of water and was able to dissolve everything.
But I remember the last time I had some XTol stock standing around; If you turned the bottle on some of the stock solutions, you'd see crystal flaking floating around in it, so I suspect that the 5 liter solution is pretty close to saturation point already and that 2.5 may be to concentrated for long storage.

- I'll find a way to mix it up and store the bottles somewhere
I live in a smaller apartment block with very limited space and I already have gear for a whole studio, with flashes, backdrops, tripods and various umbrellas and softboxes, digital DSLR with lenses and accessories, bags, power cords and various stuff, two medium format cameras + gear, 2 35mm cameras + gear, film dev stuff with several developers AND a paper enlarger + trays, papers and chemicals. All that, plus film that sits in my standing combo fridge/freezer.

But I do have some space in the basement, stable temperatures and such that I am sure two 1.5 liter bottles of XTol can stand and take up some space.

NB23 · Feb 20, 2012

Aaahhh, this XTol is finnicky. It went bad on me thelast time I used it (I mixed it per Kodak's instructions). Kinda scared to use ot again. But the results we're really lovely when it worked.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 20, 2012

How many times does this question have to be asked before people get the message. DIVIDING POWDERED MIXES IS NOT A GOOD IDEA due to uneven settling of the components. Yes, there is always someone that says they do it all the time. But manufacturers say flatly "don't do it."

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 20, 2012

Mix the whole batch and store it in a wine bladder. Works great.

fotch · Feb 20, 2012

I purchased a bunch of 250ml Amber Glass Large Mouth Bottle to be able to mix up Xtol (20 bottles) and store in smaller bottles with no air so it would last longer. Then I could use one shot or 1:1. I still have extra for anyone who need them.

I could send you some bottles however, probably less expensive locally

Helinophoto · Feb 20, 2012

Gerald C Koch said:
How many times does this question have to be asked before people get the message. DIVIDING POWDERED MIXES IS NOT A GOOD IDEA due to uneven settling of the components. Yes, there is always someone that says they do it all the time. But manufacturers say flatly "don't do it."

Actually, googling (correctly) only revealed a few old threads on photo.net after a while, so I kind of felt forced to ask here.

bill williams · Feb 20, 2012

I mix the part a and part b into a gallon of distilled water. I reserve about one pint of the one gallon of distilled water in a separate container. I first add part a into the 1 gallon container and stir until dissolved, and then add part b and stir until dissolved. I then top off with the reserved distilled water. When I use XTOL, I always use it 1 to 1. But since it is concentrated into the gallon of water, I have to use a fraction of the amount each time. That works out to about .76 the required amount. In a 300 ml tank, that will be 114 ml of concentrated XTOL and 186 ml of water. This method of mixing XTOL works for me, and in a one gallon Arizona tea container it has lasted no less than 14 months. I am into the 10 month of doing this the second time.

MattKing · Feb 20, 2012

Helinophoto said:
Actually, googling (correctly) only revealed a few old threads on photo.net after a while, so I kind of felt forced to ask here.

If you search here, you may find lots more . Many of them relate to other chemicals though.

A few people have indicated in the past that they have been successful at mixing the X-Tol to a slightly more concentrated dilution - say 3.5 to 4 liters - so a US gallon may also work. You would need to adjust the dilution though. And be sure to keep the stock in bottles that are as full as possible (the wine bladders are a good idea, but several small bottles work great as well).

And X-Tol isn't prohibitively expensive, so if you end wasting something like 1/3 of the amount you mix (by throwing it away after 6 months), would it not be still be reasonable?

Sirius Glass · Feb 20, 2012

Leigh B said:
You should not divide powdered mixtures.

Many manufacturers' instructions state that specifically.

For example, the Acufine instruction sheet says: "Never mix partial container quantities."
The boldface is in the original document, and is the only text in the entire document rendered in bold.

The constituents will not be distributed evenly among the containers, no matter how you do it.

- Leigh

What he said.

I mix all of it, store in in stock dilutions in tightly sealed bottle. Pour off into 1 liter bottles when I need to use it as replenisher. I have found that tightly sealed, stock solution can last more than six months. YMMV depending on the tightness of you sealed bottle.

Steve

David Brown · Feb 20, 2012

Helinophoto said:
Actually, googling (correctly) only revealed a few old threads on photo.net after a while, so I kind of felt forced to ask here.

MattKing said:
If you search here, you may find lots more . Many of them relate to other chemicals though.

Perhaps because the question is often asked about Dektol. Or D76, or ID11, or powdered fixer, etc. :confused:

The bottom line is that while there is ample anecdotal instances of people doing it with no problems, there is simply no way to guarantee that you will have the proper proportions of all the ingredients in your separated portion. Might work, might not.

No one wants to be wasteful, but really, a gallon (or 5L) of developer is not that expensive and if you can't use it up before it goes bad, that may just be the "price" of using what you choose to use.

rawhead · Feb 20, 2012

I just finished using up a stock Xtol dilution I mixed up over a year ago. I stored it in airtight 500ml bottles filled to the brim. No issues with developing that I can think of

ath · Feb 21, 2012

I dissolve XTOL in 2.5l since 8 years. This concentrate is stored in 0.5l PET bottles with the air squeezed out. For use one bottle is divided in 4 glass bottles. Every glass bottle gives 0.5l XTOL 1+1.
I store the XTOL in a room which goes down to 2 or 3°C in winter. No problem.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 21, 2012

Helinophoto said:
Actually, googling (correctly) only revealed a few old threads on photo.net after a while, so I kind of felt forced to ask here.

I was referring to APUG in my post. Actually this question was asked again as recently as this month. The APUG search engine is not very good - at least I sometimes have trouble finding past posts. But this question is a perennial one and asked quite a few times here. Maybe a sticky thread is needed which has the answers to all the most asked questions.

One of the questions answered in a course in quantative analysis is how to obtain a representative sample. It is surprising just how deficult this can be. Just stirring a powdered mix or putting it in a jar and shaking it is not going to insure that it is evenly mixed. Comapnies like Kodak spent a lot of money on large powwder mixing machines. They would operate for quite some time to get an even mix. This is not something that the average person can do. It is particularly problematic for developers such as Xtol which contain very small amounts of some chemicals like Dimezone or chelating agents.

Film is expensive compared to chemicals. Then you must factor in your own time and effort. Better to be safe and mix the whole package.

Splitting the XTol pack in smaller parts?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency