Splitgrade printing and dry down compensation

Todd Barlow · Feb 24, 2007

If you use fibre base splitgrade printing and also apply a dry down compensation factor do you apply the dry down factor to both the grade 0 and the grade 5 exposure?

Thanks in advance

Todd

Nick Zentena · Feb 24, 2007

I think eventually you learn to mentally judge this.

OTOH a small hair drier works wonders in the darkroom. Just don't drop it in the trays -)

jgjbowen · Feb 24, 2007

Just Grade 0.

jstraw · Feb 24, 2007

jgjbowen said:
Just Grade 0.

Would it do any harm to apply it to both exposures?

jgjbowen · Feb 24, 2007

jstraw said:
Would it do any harm to apply it to both exposures?

I guess that would depend on the image and paper. Drydown is determined by judging the high print values. I split print with a Zone VI VC head and the "hard" grade doesn't effect the high values, only the low print values. If you apply too much of a drydown factor with the grade "5" filter you might find your blacks have turned to mud. YMMV

jstraw · Feb 24, 2007

This is really an interesting aspect of split grade I hadn't considered.

jovo · Feb 24, 2007

I asked Les MacLean this question once and he replied that you compensate in all exposures....X % in grade 5 and the same in grade 0 or 1 and in all burns and dodges. Les, if I've misquoted you I apologize, but that's what I recall.

Eric Rose · Feb 24, 2007

If you preview your wet prints with a lower wattage bulb you will not experience this effect called dry down. Make your exposure evaluations using something like a 40 watt bulb instead of the usual room lights or halogen some people use.

Give it a try.

Eric

Bruce Osgood · Feb 24, 2007

I have a drum dryer that dry's paper flat with no discernable moisture to the touch. They are ready to mat or mount just out of the dryer. HOWEVER, it takes another 12-24 hours for the tones to really set. I wouldn't judge a finished print before a day after it is 'dried'.

Dry down is a function of the paper, not the process. Some papers require more than others. Some do not seem to dry down at all.

If your paper requires dry down then by all means every exposure should be accounted for.

Just my $.02

David Brown · Feb 24, 2007

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
Dry down is a function of the paper, not the process. Some papers require more than others. Some do not seem to dry down at all.

If your paper requires dry down then by all means every exposure should be accounted for.

Just my $.02

Agreed! This is something that requires testing. I suggest reading Les' short article on it here in apug.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

kwmullet · Feb 24, 2007

Just before I make what I believe will be a final print, I slide my metronome from 60 to 66.

-KwM-

j-fr · Feb 25, 2007

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
I have a drum dryer that dry's paper flat with no discernable moisture to the touch. They are ready to mat or mount just out of the dryer. HOWEVER, it takes another 12-24 hours for the tones to really set. I wouldn't judge a finished print before a day after it is 'dried'.

Are you really sure that it takes 12 - 24 hours for the tones to set? Is it not just because you wiev the print in a different light or with fresh eyes after a good nights sleep?

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

Dan Henderson · Feb 25, 2007

one of the best non-photographic items I purchased for my darkroom was a used microwave oven. Work prints dry in one minute, allowing me to evaluate them as I go.

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: My job requires me to advise that with significant overexposure to microwave energy, photographic paper WILL catch fire! (Determined, of course, from a carefully controlled *cough* experiment. I am a professional. Do not try this at home.)

David Brown · Feb 25, 2007

FirePhoto said:
... with significant overexposure to microwave energy, photographic paper WILL catch fire! (Determined, of course, from a carefully controlled *cough* experiment. I am a professional. Do not try this at home.)

Hmmm... that would explain your pseudonym!

Bruce Osgood · Feb 25, 2007

j-fr said:
Are you really sure that it takes 12 - 24 hours for the tones to set? Is it not just because you wiev the print in a different light or with fresh eyes after a good nights sleep?

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

Well, 24 hours may be a bit extreme but I am sure of 12. I view under room light as I expect the image will 'live', immediately after drying and again in the morning under the identical light. That leaves the 'fresh eyes' theory a possibility and you may be right, or at least to some degree. As far as a good nights sleep goes, I haven't had one in over thirty years.

Sleepless in Brooklyn,

jstraw · Feb 25, 2007

Drydown is not metaphysical. It's real. If "dry" isn't enough...if there is a curing factor...this should be empirically quantifiable.

One way would be to compare histograms of a freshly dry print and a 12-hour dry print.

Chuck_P · Feb 25, 2007

Eric Rose said:
If you preview your wet prints with a lower wattage bulb you will not experience this effect called dry down. Make your exposure evaluations using something like a 40 watt bulb instead of the usual room lights or halogen some people use.

Give it a try.

Eric

Eric,

Can you expand on this statement a bit. Perhaps it's my head cold, but I don't follow on this one.

Thanks

Chuck

George Collier · Feb 25, 2007

To expand on Eric's suggestion of a lower wattage bulb: I do the same thing. I use a 40 watt bulb in a recessed fixture that is about 5 or so feet from the viewing surface, a big piece of glass angled back and away from me, which drains into the sink. It is right behind my fixer tray. I put the print on this surface and let the fix/water drain for 10 seconds or so (I do a 10-15 second rinse in water after the fix, which is TF4 and only takes a minute). (never view it in the tray, it always looks much lighter sitting in a tray of fixer) I even have a piece of black plastic from a paper pack hanging down in front of the light (between the light and my eyes to keep direct light out of my eyes.) I should add that this light is on a separate switch, so it is the only light on when judging prints during a darkroom session.
The idea is that if you view the print with less than normal room, or "exhibition" light, you will automatically make a print that is just a bit brighter than you would if you were making your judgements in brighter light. After dry down, it will look good in brighter viewing light. Obviously, testing is required, and the relative difference of the darkroom viewing light and the "exhibition" light depends on the paper, and maybe other conditions, and may be a personal thing.
I've been doing this for about 25 years, after realizing why my prints always seem a bit "dirty" after drying. I had been using a 75 - 100 w bulb up to that point. You could say the bulb in my head finally lit up.

Todd Barlow · Mar 3, 2007

Thanks for your replies

I have also confirmed Jovo's (John Voss) reply that the dry down % should be applied to all exposures (soft and hard base exposure and all dodging and burning)

I also appreciate the suggestion to use a lower wattage lamp in the darkroom when viewing the test strips to determine the exposure in the first place, and then not having to apply a drydown percentage.

Todd

Splitgrade printing and dry down compensation

Todd Barlow

Nick Zentena

jgjbowen

jstraw

jgjbowen

jstraw

jovo

Membership Council

Eric Rose

Bruce Osgood

Membership Council

David Brown

kwmullet

j-fr

Dan Henderson

David Brown

Bruce Osgood

Membership Council

jstraw

Chuck_P

George Collier

Todd Barlow

Splitgrade printing and dry down compensation

Membership Council

Membership Council

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency