Split grade and unsharp?

Kvistgaard · Aug 16, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
Thomas is posting on a problem that I think is caused by not using a glass carrier. Second exposure or during the first I suspect the neg is popping.

Bob - excuse my ignorance, but when you refer to glass carriers- is that one or two layers of glass (the latter with the negative sandwiched in between the glass)?

Currently I am using just one layer of glass (above the neg), for both 120 and 135, and results are reasonably sharp. This is advice I picked up from one of Barry Thornton's books, along with the instruction to stop down your lens before adjusting focus (using a grain finder).

Guillaume Zuili · Aug 16, 2009

He refers to 2 layers of glass.

Bob Carnie · Aug 16, 2009

Yes I am referring to two layers of glass, antinewton on top regular on bottom.
I sometimes do use only a single layer of anti newton on to and none on the bottom, but I am printing murals with very long exposures and quite a few filter changes . I want make sure that the negative has no chance to move as a 30x40 sheet of paper is expensive and removing any problem areas is critical to me.

Bob

Kvistgaard said:
Bob - excuse my ignorance, but when you refer to glass carriers- is that one or two layers of glass (the latter with the negative sandwiched in between the glass)?

Currently I am using just one layer of glass (above the neg), for both 120 and 135, and results are reasonably sharp. This is advice I picked up from one of Barry Thornton's books, along with the instruction to stop down your lens before adjusting focus (using a grain finder).

clayne · Aug 16, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
Yes I am referring to two layers of glass, antinewton on top regular on bottom.
I sometimes do use only a single layer of anti newton on to and none on the bottom, but I am printing murals with very long exposures and quite a few filter changes . I want make sure that the negative has no chance to move as a 30x40 sheet of paper is expensive and removing any problem areas is critical to me.

Bob

Bob, on a side note, what's a typical exposure time for a 30x40?

richard ide · Aug 16, 2009

One thing I tried which seems to work well is mounting the negative base side to the glass with mineral spirits. You just need the top glass.

Bob Carnie · Aug 17, 2009

Yesterday I was making 30x40 lith prints , standard d76 negative , I was any where from 99 seconds - 35 seconds , using a 11x14 devere enlarger no filter, 150 apo rodagon stopped down two stops. We made 4 prints from different negs.
Ilford Warmtone from 35mm, standard d76 negative, to 30x40 print on a Omega Condensor with a 250w bulb two stops down can range from 15 seconds to around 60 seconds depending on negative density.

clayne said:
Bob, on a side note, what's a typical exposure time for a 30x40?

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 17, 2009

Well,

I tried the glass carrier, and there is a difference in sharpness. But now I'm getting much lower contrast due to fogging. How do you mask off the negative so that there is no stray light on the sides fogging the paper? Fully developed and exposed to daylight sheet of film with a cut-out? I would opt to place this on top of the carrier. Does that sound kosher?
(I only have a 4x5 glass carrier).

Bob's theory about a popped negative is very valid. I'm using a 250W bulb, and with filter changes I am in the realm of keeping the enlarger going for about 3 minutes including all of the burning I have to do with a particularly dense negative (The Grade 4 burn in the sky takes forever).

It's a good step forward, but as usual when you change something for the better, some other problem occurs...

- Thomas

Bob Carnie · Aug 17, 2009

Hi Thomas

I place set up the easal with my blades where I want to print, I defocus the enlarger without a negative in place and move the easal dead center , the condensor cone will be your guide .
Once the easal is locked down into position I will then put a negative in and move the negative until it is dead nuts in position with the blades of the easal. Do not move the easal move the negative to make sure you are dead center ... bulb,,, condensor,,, negative.... lens.... easal blades.
Once you have your negative in its correct position.
take it onto a light box , flip over the glass carrier and use black electrical tape and mask out the clear areas of the negative.
Once this is done , its done you never have to do it again.
I do this for 35mm, 6x6, 6x7,6x9, and 6x12.
You will always be dead center and if you are in alignment then ultimate bliss will be your constant companion.

regards
Bob

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Well,

I tried the glass carrier, and there is a difference in sharpness. But now I'm getting much lower contrast due to fogging. How do you mask off the negative so that there is no stray light on the sides fogging the paper? Fully developed and exposed to daylight sheet of film with a cut-out? I would opt to place this on top of the carrier. Does that sound kosher?
(I only have a 4x5 glass carrier).

Bob's theory about a popped negative is very valid. I'm using a 250W bulb, and with filter changes I am in the realm of keeping the enlarger going for about 3 minutes including all of the burning I have to do with a particularly dense negative (The Grade 4 burn in the sky takes forever).

It's a good step forward, but as usual when you change something for the better, some other problem occurs...

- Thomas

Bob Carnie · Aug 17, 2009

Set up Easal...
electrical tape and mosk out clear areas surrounding the negative

Bob Carnie · Aug 17, 2009

mask
shit fingers are moving too fast got to go now.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 17, 2009

Thanks, Bob!

PVia · Aug 17, 2009

Do the carriers you guys are using LOCK into place in the enlarger???

I have an Omega D5XL, and the carriers just rotate in place, nothing locks.

Bob Carnie · Aug 17, 2009

My carriers do not lock in place but on the underside there is channels sticking out that I use for a guide. I always have the notches towards me rather than away , once in the grooves there is room for small movement .

PVia said:
Do the carriers you guys are using LOCK into place in the enlarger???

I have an Omega D5XL, and the carriers just rotate in place, nothing locks.

clayne · Aug 17, 2009

Mine locks (Kaiser) and the glass sandwich is allowed to flip up while still in the enlarger so that one can reposition without moving it around. The masks usually get everything, but for the occasional edges that project light off to the sides of the paper I usually just let them be. I don't notice any fogging. It may be very subtle and is probably better this stray carrier light isn't off to the sides, but I haven't noticed any fogging due to it.

Tref Hopkins · Aug 18, 2009

I use a Devere 504, and my Ilford MG head can make a lot of heat quite fast. I don't regard split grading as a good or bad thing, merely a sensible use of VC paper. I use graded paper when it suits me to use it. I print for other people, so really their wants are the key.

Back on topic, I'd agree thoroughly with the popping diagnosis. An exposure that runs into minutes is asking for trouble. The 504 lets you change masks for format in a standard carrier. I usually put a 5x4 piece of anti-newton glass on top and the 'top' part of the metal mask on the bottom to guard against this very problem. Personally I'd say a half-glass carrier is the optimum for any single-frame printing. You have less chance of dust than full glass...

It would be interesting to know if opening up had any impact - trading wide-open aberration for shorter exposure (less time = less chance of pop!)

Tref Hopkins · Aug 18, 2009

wrt to focussing stopped down, some recommend sliding a sheet of the paper paper you plan to use under the base of your grain mag, too...

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 18, 2009

According to Bob's instruction, I masked off my 4x5 neg carrier yesterday and did some printing.
I have to say that I was astounded by the difference in sharpness compared to the glassless carrier. Grain was MUCH more apparent, but looked very nice. The problem now is all the dust that is also visible. I never thought I'd have to spot my prints as much as is now evident. It makes me wonder if the extra sharpness is worth it, as I never really felt I was lacking sharpness prior to this...

Thanks for the advice everyone.

- Thomas

Andrew Moxom · Aug 18, 2009

good to hear you are getting your flatness problems resolved Thomas. I do have to ask if you've checked your enlarger alignment lately? I had some similar problems some years back and sound my Beseler 45 had slipped one of it's cogs on motorized lifting mechanism. I was lucky that I have a versalab enlarger alignment tool. I could make prints that were sharp for the most part. Since I fixed the issue and fine tuned the alignment with the versalign, that it's a breeze now to print. I also replaced many of the old tired screws on the MCRX-45 bracing rods with hex head screws that allow more torque. I have not had to make ANY adjustments since doing that. I'd gladly swing over and help you check that??

After I realigned mine, sharpness improved greatly.

A.

Bob Carnie · Aug 18, 2009

Damm Thomas
are all you folks from the mid west so hard to please..

Ok Dust control
rewash negative
warm water cotton gloves , to get rid of surface grit on negative
photoflow and dry.
Lots of humidity in your darkroom
Varn glass cleaner or above to clean glass
all sides
wipe down all surfaces in darkroom
Antistatic cloth slightly both surfaces of negative
Canned air, not compressed air from hoses with copper or no moister reducer unit.
Use a 10x loupe to look at negative
reclean if you see dust .
Get over it and do it.

Bob

Thomas Bertilsson said:
According to Bob's instruction, I masked off my 4x5 neg carrier yesterday and did some printing.
I have to say that I was astounded by the difference in sharpness compared to the glassless carrier. Grain was MUCH more apparent, but looked very nice. The problem now is all the dust that is also visible. I never thought I'd have to spot my prints as much as is now evident. It makes me wonder if the extra sharpness is worth it, as I never really felt I was lacking sharpness prior to this...

Thanks for the advice everyone.

- Thomas

MattKing · Aug 18, 2009

Bob Carnie said:
....
Lots of humidity in your darkroom .
.....

Bob

Bob:

Do you recommend moving to Toronto in order to get the right level of summer humidity?

Matt

Steve Smith · Aug 18, 2009

Tref Hopkins said:
wrt to focussing stopped down, some recommend sliding a sheet of the paper paper you plan to use under the base of your grain mag, too...

And others recommend not doing that!

Steve.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 19, 2009

Never knew Sweden was in the Midwest...

Yeah, I should stop bitchin and get on with it. You're right in a way. It was more of a reflection than anything...

I appreciate the advice. Regarding dusty negs, for some reason the negatives I have processed with Xtol don't have much dust on them, if any. They are squeaky clean. One or two spots in a 10" square print to spot, and that's it. Negs processed with Rodinal or HC-110 (don't use those anymore) have little armies of dust attached to them. It's very strange...

Onward!

- T

Bob Carnie said:
Damm Thomas
are all you folks from the mid west so hard to please..

Ok Dust control
rewash negative
warm water cotton gloves , to get rid of surface grit on negative
photoflow and dry.
Lots of humidity in your darkroom
Varn glass cleaner or above to clean glass
all sides
wipe down all surfaces in darkroom
Antistatic cloth slightly both surfaces of negative
Canned air, not compressed air from hoses with copper or no moister reducer unit.
Use a 10x loupe to look at negative
reclean if you see dust .
Get over it and do it.

Bob

Andrew Moxom · Aug 19, 2009

It's certainly go to do with the amount of surfactants in the developer. I know many have wetting agent incorporated in them, and some don't. Could it be that Xtol has more of this incorporated into it?

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 19, 2009

I think there is some validity to your statement, Andy, about wetting agents. I don't know what truth there is to it, and I don't care that much either. It works well for me, that's all that matters.

Pyrocat was very good with giving me spot free negatives also.

- Thomas

Split grade and unsharp?

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