Spiral clip with Paterson Tanks

Alan Johnson · Jul 20, 2016

I bought all my Paterson tanks secondhand. Only one of the spirals has the clip illustrated that grips the center tube and stops the spiral riding up so that 120 film is definitely held below the surface of the processing liquids. Was this clip originally supplied with all Paterson System 4 tanks?

Dali · Jul 20, 2016

I think so. It was not provided with spare reel though.

OptiKen · Jul 20, 2016

That clip is available from Freestyle.com

Rick A · Jul 20, 2016

If you don't have the clip, you can use a rubber band wound around the post to keep the reels from climbing up during development.

Kirks518 · Jul 20, 2016

Rick A said:
If you don't have the clip, you can use a rubber band wound around the post to keep the reels from climbing up during development.

+1

Alan Johnson · Jul 20, 2016

Thanks.For the time being I will use elastic bands but I have ordered some of these clips:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55044...Plastic-Reel-Clip-for-Premium-Film-Developing
If they don't fit the posts on the Paterson System 4 tanks I will report back in this thread.

Rick A · Jul 20, 2016

You only need one, unless you have more than one tank.

MattKing · Jul 20, 2016

A 35mm film cannister with bottom removed serves as a great replacement for a spare reel.

AgX · Jul 21, 2016

Rick A said:
If you don't have the clip, you can use a rubber band wound around the post to keep the reels from climbing up during development.

Or wind an adhesive tape around that tube where the reel arrests, so that it helds itself in position by higher friction.

canvassy · Jul 21, 2016

I have a Paterson super system 4 (2 reel tank) that I got brand new maybe 2 or 3 years ago, and it didn't come with a clip like that.

Frank53 · Jul 21, 2016

I've been using Patterson tanks for almost 50 years and I see this clip for the first time so I never used it, but more importantly, I never missed it. Anyone really witnessed a case of a spiral climbing up? You even need some force to remove the spiral from the tube.
Regards,
Frank

Ian Grant · Jul 21, 2016

I think the clip came with multi reel tanks rather than all tanks, I only have 2 for maybe a dozen tanks.

Ian

bernard_L · Jul 21, 2016

Frank53 said:
Anyone really witnessed a case of a spiral climbing up?

Sliding down, during tank inversion, the weight of the liquid flowing past spiral+film can slide the spiral down. That is why there is a clip.
And store the clip off the center column, or it will lose its elasticity - that happens with polymers and is called plastic creep.

AgX · Jul 21, 2016

Genarally speaking for all reel-systems:

If you are inverting and the reel should be so loose that it easily glides over the tube, that should be no problem at all as it will fall back down at the end of inversion.
Problematic are those cases where a reel slips a bit due to its inertia at a sudden stop of inversion, but likely will not come back at a smooth stop. These cases need either a true arrest or much higher friction induced at the tube.

Ian Grant · Jul 21, 2016

Frank53 said:
I've been using Patterson tanks for almost 50 years and I see this clip for the first time so I never used it, but more importantly, I never missed it. Anyone really witnessed a case of a spiral climbing up? You even need some force to remove the spiral from the tube.
Regards,
Frank

Yes, I've had reels slide up the column a few times which is why I always use the clips. Not all reels are a tight fit on the center column However this is only a significant problem in multi reel tanks when using one or two reels. I always use more chemistry than Paterson suggest.

Ian

Frank53 · Jul 21, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Yes, I've had reels slide up the column a few times which is why I always use the clips. Not all reels are a tight fit on the center column However this is only a significant problem in multi reel tanks when using one or two reels. I always use more chemistry than Paterson suggest.

Ian

So I must have been lucky all those years with tight fitting reels.
And I do use a bit more chemistry for each film, maybe that helps as well.
Regards,
Frank

darkroommike · Jul 21, 2016

You could also make a dozen clips from a short length of PVC pipe and I think I've seen a digital printer "program" to make these. In all my years of using Paterson tanks I never had the reels move up the center column, but I gently bump the tank after each inversion cycle and that may be moving the reels back to rest on the bottom of the tank.

Rick A · Jul 21, 2016

I have seen at least two instances where the spiral slid up the shaft, and didn't slide back down. The results were obvious as to cause.One of the occurences was using two 35mm reels, about 1/4 inch of the upper reel was out of the developer and showed an under developed line. Over filling the tank is not a good cure for the problem, as you need the air space to get proper agitation, unless you use the swizzle stick(hate the danged thingie).

Dali · Jul 21, 2016

I use the clip all the time when developing 1 film (35mm or 120) and also pour 600ml in the tank all the time. Even with the clip in place, the reel can slide up (especially with 35mm film) but no damage as the tank is pretty much filled.

darkroommike · Jul 21, 2016

Rick A said:
Over filling the tank is not a good cure for the problem, as you need the air space to get proper agitation, unless you use the swizzle stick(hate the danged thingie).

I've never seen a study on this and I fill stainless steel tanks to the brim all the time. If this is real then your agitation should be different if you were using one roll and 300ml in a Universal tank vs. 2 reels and 600ml.

benjiboy · Sep 12, 2016

These plastic clips in the days I worked in a camera store came with all complete tanks if they came with a spiral, they were so the the spiral didn't slip on the central core with the movement of the liquids with inverse agitation.

Alan Johnson · Sep 13, 2016

Just to confirm that the clips from Freestyle mentioned in post 6 did arrive and they do fit on my Paterson central cores.

MartinP · Sep 14, 2016

So far as I recall the Paterson Super System 4 tanks and reels don't/didn't have these clips. This is because the S-S-4 reels have a few mouldings inside, against the tank-core, to give more of a springy grip on the core.

I have seen a much older Paterson tank (really old, before the 'System' designs) with slightly different reels, though nominally the same size, and a clip. Probably there are 'old' reels being used in 'new' tanks, and vice-versa, which gives different results depending on wear and tear of the gear. An elastic band wrapped round the core, above the top-most reel will stop unwanted movement, as mentioned by several other people.

I just checked three different makes of 'Paterson size' reels and these days they all seem to have some extra moulding on the inside. On my Jobo reels there is no friction-increasing feature, but I haven't noticed reels moving in those tanks when used for inversion. It obviously wouldn't be a problem in Jobo rotary processing either.

Spiral clip with Paterson Tanks

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