Speed Graphics FP shutter - damn, it does shake the whole thing :(

eumenius · Nov 15, 2005

Hello friends,

after some testing of my 210/3.5 Trioplan with my Speed Graphic and its back shutter I can say that it indeed gives too much shake to shoot vertical portraits I did almost everything to minimize it - fastened better the screws in tripod sockets, etc., but the blur is there, I can say! Even if I hold my finger on top of the camera... the speeds I used were from 1/10 to 1/70, Manfrotto 055B Pro tripod, 3-D Manfrotto head 029. Well, I won't give up this and other barrel lenses, so what are you ideas how can I make everything steadier when shooting verticals? For understandable reasons the shake in horisontals is almost absent, better say undetected yet in significant amount

And the Trioplan is a real performer, I am really seriously impressed even with blurred nudes shoot on Fomapan 100, reverse-processed

Cheers from Moscow,
Zhenya

Dave Parker · Nov 15, 2005

Zhenya,

I would get a different tripod head, the 3-D head that bogen makes is probably one of the most prone to shake that I have ever seen, I have shot my Graflex on 3047 head with the focal plane shutter and never had any problems, but I put my 3-D head back in the box and have never used it again...

Dave

jimgalli · Nov 15, 2005

Set a boat anchor on top.

eumenius · Nov 15, 2005

Hi Dave,

well, 3047 head is exactly what I have got here - it looks quite massive, but you say it's prone to shake anyway? Could you recommend a Manfrotto head that would be okay for my Graflex and coming soon Omegaview 45D? I am really puzzled by the assortment (Though I got 3047, aka 029 for only $45 new!)

Cheers, Zhenya

Satinsnow said:
Zhenya,

I would get a different tripod head, the 3-D head that bogen makes is probably one of the most prone to shake that I have ever seen, I have shot my Graflex on 3047 head with the focal plane shutter and never had any problems, but I put my 3-D head back in the box and have never used it again...

Dave

Dan Fromm · Nov 15, 2005

Guys, I have that head, had an older 055 tripod. Had great problems with the tripod with long lenses, none with the head. And I'm doing better with long lenses now that I've replaced the 055 with a Berlebach.

Zhenya, when I was trying to understand why my Questar 700 gave such fuzzy shots, I wiggled every part of the tripod, head, etc. until I found the looseness. The leg sections moved relative to each other, the clamps couldn't hold them in position well enough. Have you checked that yet? My 055 was an old one, bought in the late 1980s. But I've seen three brand new ones in the last six months, two of them had the same problem. And, did you flip the head or did you mount the camera on the head with its side tripod socket?

Dave the Bogen 3047 and Manfrotto 029 and one and the same. Which 3-D head are you thinking of?

Cheers,

Dan

eumenius · Nov 15, 2005

Hmmm, a boat anchor sounds like a good accessory... I personally prefer anvils, it shoud look closer to original Graflex design

A 055 can be a problem, yes - I am planning to buy a bigger thing for my Omegaview 45D coming soon, some model I forgot the number, with spreader and geared massive center column But the legs in my specimen are OK, I checked and tightened a bit the screws on them... I didn't flip the head, I used a side socket after unclipping the handle. The sockets themselves are not loose, I fixed them. So, maybe it's 055? I love this tripod, and it would be bad to have it replaced

Cheers,
Zhenya

Dave Parker · Nov 15, 2005

eumenius said:
Hi Dave,

well, 3047 head is exactly what I have got here - it looks quite massive, but you say it's prone to shake anyway? Could you recommend a Manfrotto head that would be okay for my Graflex and coming soon Omegaview 45D? I am really puzzled by the assortment (Though I got 3047, aka 029 for only $45 new!)

Cheers, Zhenya

Zhenya, I thought you were talking about the 3-D model that bogen makes, if you have a 3047 which is the 3 way pan and tilt head, that is what I use for my graflex and have never had a problem with shake at all.....

Dave

Dave Parker · Nov 15, 2005

Dan Fromm said:
Guys, I have that head, had an older 055 tripod. Had great problems with the tripod with long lenses, none with the head. And I'm doing better with long lenses now that I've replaced the 055 with a Berlebach.

Zhenya, when I was trying to understand why my Questar 700 gave such fuzzy shots, I wiggled every part of the tripod, head, etc. until I found the looseness. The leg sections moved relative to each other, the clamps couldn't hold them in position well enough. Have you checked that yet? My 055 was an old one, bought in the late 1980s. But I've seen three brand new ones in the last six months, two of them had the same problem. And, did you flip the head or did you mount the camera on the head with its side tripod socket?

Dave the Bogen 3047 and Manfrotto 029 and one and the same. Which 3-D head are you thinking of?

Cheers,

Dan

The 3-D head is an entirly different head than the 3047, I don't know on the 029 model designation, I have never refered to it by that number, but Bogen made a model that was designated by the name of 3-D that was a terrible head, Like I said, I used it exactly twice and put it back in the box, I will have to see if I still have it around here.

Dave

PS, I am shippng your screens on Wed 11/16, so should be there real soon.

eumenius · Nov 15, 2005

Dave,

thank you very much for the screens - you're indeed doing a great job, and I am already recommending you to my friends, so wait for more orders from Russia

The 3-D head you are referring to is maybe an 141 standart head, with square QR plates, not with hexagonal ones like in 029 (3047). 029 looks good, so I am no sure that the problem arises from the head... let's see what the people would say

Cheers,
Zhenya

Satinsnow said:
The 3-D head is an entirly different head than the 3047, I don't know on the 029 model designation, I have never refered to it by that number, but Bogen made a model that was designated by the name of 3-D that was a terrible head, Like I said, I used it exactly twice and put it back in the box, I will have to see if I still have it around here.

Dave

PS, I am shippng your screens on Wed 11/16, so should be there real soon.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 15, 2005

I had a Bogen pan-tilt head, and I felt that that inverted-L shape with the platform high up on a kind of thin support was all too efficient as a transmitter of vibration. I eventually sold the Bogen and switched to a Gitzo low-profile pan-tilt head, the G1570M, which is better, but I also have a Majestic head, which is better still.

glennfromwy · Nov 15, 2005

You're right about the sideways slap of the shutter causing headaches when shooting vertically. With speeds 1/25 and higher, you may actually do better hand holding it. Takes practice. I have had success, to a certain extent, with putting one hand on top of the camera and pushing straight down, hard, when releasing the shutter. The downward pressure can firm things up considerably and it dampens a good lot of vibration. I don't treat tripods with much respect, either. I tap the legs outward with my foot to make sure they actually are as far out as they will go. That can also add a bit of rigidity to the whole affair. Good luck to you.

nworth · Nov 16, 2005

eumenius said:
Hi Dave,

well, 3047 head is exactly what I have got here - it looks quite massive, but you say it's prone to shake anyway? Could you recommend a Manfrotto head that would be okay for my Graflex and coming soon Omegaview 45D? I am really puzzled by the assortment (Though I got 3047, aka 029 for only $45 new!)

Cheers, Zhenya

I also use a 3047 head, and I recently developed some shakiness while in the field. I traced it to a loosening of the screws underneath the head that Thread into the lower section of the mounting block and jam into indentations in the upper section. If the head is well fastened to the tripod and still wiggles a bit in your hand, this may be the problem. You have to keep checking this, since the screws have a habit of coming loose.

The Speed Graphic focal plane shutter is more gentle than the one on my Bronica S2A, and I haven't had any problem with that. Most of the shake with focal plane shutters comes at the end of the travel, when the exposure is done.

eumenius · Nov 16, 2005

Oh, looks like a real source of shakiness is found - it's indeed a damn 055 central socket, where the column moves!!! If the slit between two halves of it is positioned not at 0 degrees on pan dial of the head, it's a goner - the column just moves in the socket with a good sideplay, respectless of how much the keeping screw is tightened!!! What a crap. But I still love my 055

I also apparently did find the right spot to keep my left hand thumb on during exposure - a right side of telescopic viewfinder is probably the appropriate site I developed today two portraits shot on 1/25 and 1/10 - everything's sharp, no blur at all after I fastened and aligned the column socket and kept my finger on a viewfinder

Speed Graphics FP shutter - damn, it does shake the whole thing :(

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