Speed Graphic question

[David H. Bebbington]

I just took delivery today of another Pacemaker Speed Graphic, a 3x4" model in very good condition. According to a rough test with a Mk I eyeball, the shutter is working well and running at a steady speed, but I would estimate it is 1 1/2 stops slow (i.e. marked 1/1000 is actual 1/300, etc.). My question is this: Among APUGers who use the focal plane shutter of a Speed Graphic with barrel lenses, is there anyone who has had the shutter tuned up to the original speeds, or do people just use the shutter as found and make mental allowance for the slowness of the speeds? Do the (over 50-year-old) springs start breaking if a repairman tries to set the shutter to accurate speeds?

Regards,

David

 

[erikg]

David, have no fear for the spring in the FP shutter, they seem to last forever. I have adjusted a number of these shutters over the years, mainly in graflex slr's that are a good bit older than your Pacemaker. This is something you can do yourself, or have it done, if you don't feel comfortable. The idea is to set the tension on the spring so that the curtain just drops slowly from the last open postion. Then the other speeds will fall into place. I think there is a description on Graflex.org, I know it is in the Romney texts. I can give you the gist of that if you need.

 

[outwest]

David, as Erik said, you can easily get 1/1000 out of it doing it yourself and requiring only a screwdriver; this is window blind technology not watchmaking. Just take out the black screws all around the speed setting plate. There will be exposed a square plate held by a lock screw. Loosen the lock screw and set the tension by turning the square plate and retighten the lock screw.

 

[BrianShaw]

If I remember correctly, the spring is pre-wound eight (8) turns then the counter is reinstalled at "1". I would think that getting accurate speeds also relies on having all moving parts properly cleaned and lubricated.

 

[jon koss]

Hi David - Glad to see the torch being carried for the Speeds. I would offer a couple of observations which may or may not be part of your thinking already. Hopefully they will be of some value.

First is that even a 3x4 has a huge distance across the film plane. So even if the slit appears to be crawling across the plane, each area may only be seeing a tiny bit of exposure. For instance, if you have a 1/8 inch slit that takes a relatively eternal 1/8 sec to cross the film plane, then each film grain is only seeing a bit under 1/200 seconds of exposure.

Second, I have found that a good lube is hugely valuable. In my experience, folks have come to assume that Speeds have a naturally graunchy shutter song. Having actually built up a shutter from scratch, I discovered that a well-lubed, factory new Graphic shutter sounds quite sweet and positive. Not much tension is required to move a fresh Speed shutter. So before tensioning up, I would definitely take the time to lube all points. This may buy you quite a bit of shutter speed.

If the shutter is a completely crispy pretzel, it is definitely within he reach of an average amateur to perform a complete rebuild. This is a lot of fun and the results will amaze!

I would not worry about breaking the shutter spring or any other component. The main worry I have seen is the screws taking too much wood with them upon removal.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps!

Jon

I just took delivery today of another Pacemaker Speed Graphic, a 3x4" model in very good condition. According to a rough test with a Mk I eyeball, the shutter is working well and running at a steady speed, but I would estimate it is 1 1/2 stops slow (i.e. marked 1/1000 is actual 1/300, etc.). My question is this: Among APUGers who use the focal plane shutter of a Speed Graphic with barrel lenses, is there anyone who has had the shutter tuned up to the original speeds, or do people just use the shutter as found and make mental allowance for the slowness of the speeds? Do the (over 50-year-old) springs start breaking if a repairman tries to set the shutter to accurate speeds?

Regards,

David

 

[jimgalli]

My experience also is limited so fwiw, the curtain shutters I've had and used all suffered from worn axle bearings. Some of the older ones are quite accessible. A clean and lube will remove any "chatter" from wear. That chatter whether you can actually see or hear it is what is slowing things down. I need to play with my old speed and weird lenses a lot more than I get to. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[jd callow]

I have a Speed, a barrel lens and try to use the two together. The Speed is of the 4x5 variety and the lens is a 10" Heliar. The weight of the lens and the FP shutter seem to create a fair amount of camera shake. It may be that the shutter needs a lube, I wouldn't know a smooth Speed FP shutter from a bad one because I have only used the one I have.

The other bothersome aspect of using the FP shutter is that, as far as I’ve been able to determine, it is impossible to sync the shutter with modern strobes. I prefer to use strobes for portraits which is an issue with this combination.

The shutter speeds on mine appear to be close enough so that if I err toward over exposure I'm generally in good shape.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Thanks to all for responses - the next thing must be to shoot an exposure test. It seems very clear that Speed Graphic FP shutters are easily fixable if need be.

Regards,

David

PS: FP shutters and strobes. I would presume it is impossible to sync a Graphic FP shutter with a conventional portable or studio strobe, since at no time does the shutter uncover the whole picture area at the same time. It would however be possible to use the long-duration strobes (characteristics like an FP flashbulb) from Nikon and others.

 

[Jim Jones]

. . . The other bothersome aspect of using the FP shutter is that, as far as I’ve been able to determine, it is impossible to sync the shutter with modern strobes. I prefer to use strobes for portraits which is an issue with this combination. . . .

The flash contacts on my Pacemaker close when the shutter is fully open. Where ambient light is low, a strobe or flash bulb can be triggered by a quick time exposure. Since the Speed Graphic has a fairly slow running shutter, FP flash bulbs or long duration strobes might be too brief. Checking that out with photo transistors and oscilloscope would be one more good rainy day project.

 

[jd callow]

David,
I would love to know what your plans are for this camera, and later to know how successful you were at implementing your plans. I had hoped to use mine as a platform for the Heliar and for handheld 4x5 work. I have the Graphic (starwars version) flash, a bevy of bulbs, and had hoped to do some stark, handheld shots of people in clubs, and on the street. It hasn't worked out for me.

The cure for me with regard to the portrait lens and the Speed is to get a sinar shutter and move the heliar to my Sinar and to sell the speed for a Century. The FP shutter simply adds weight, bulk and inhibits the use of shorter lenses.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

David,
I would love to know what your plans are for this camera, and later to know how successful you were at implementing your plans.

This camera reflects my current mood/philosophy, by which I am fed up with lugging a heavy camera around (it might just be getting old!). I already have a 3x4 Graphic in great condition but without rangefinder, my reasons for buying another may be unclear (not least to me), but the package included a very good rollfilm back. I could have gotten a 2x3 Graphic but the lens boards of these are (I think) too small for anything bigger than a #0 shutter, whereas with the 3x4 I can fit a 270 Tele-Arton in a #1. Although I nearly always focus on the screen and work from a tripod, I do like the idea that I can open the camera quickly, focus by scale or rangefinder and take a quick shot of anything that won't wait.

The big problem with 3x4 Graphics is finding rollfilm holders and lensboards, but after some effort I have 4 of the former and around 6 of the latter, so I now have quite a good working outfit. Fundamentally I have an irrational attachment to Speed Graphics, at an early age I came to think of them as "proper" professional cameras, happily with the present state of the s/h camera market, I can indulge my whim without financial strain.

Regards,

David

 

[BrianShaw]

(snip)

Fundamentally I have an irrational attachment to Speed Graphics, at an early age I came to think of them as "proper" professional cameras, happily with the present state of the s/h camera market, I can indulge my whim without financial strain.

I'm with you 100%, David, but I still carry a 4x5 just because of the ease of finding roll film holders, etc. As time goes by, I need to start working out more to be able to hold them steady. I look forward to hearing of your experiences with hand-holding and using the FP shutter; I always tripod-mount when using F-P but LOVE hand-holding when using lenses in leaf shutter.

 

[Gordon Cooper]

The negatives I have shot with my Anniversary Speed using the rear shutter are slightly underexposed, compared to the shots with the front shutter. I have read that this is one reason the cameras with roller blind slit shutters were so popular with Pictorialists--the sky was underexposed in the images. I have no idea whether that is true or not.