Speed Graphic 4x5- Was On a Shoot Recently

[braxus]

Since I have so much 4x5 film just sitting in the freezer, and hadn't used my Speed Graphic for several years now, I decided to get it out for 6 shots worth of film. I took the camera along with a few other cameras to a location I have been before.

I noticed that the ground glass hood still didn't cover up much light when trying to see an image on the screen. I had the lens wide open (Ektar 127mm f4.7 lens), and the day was overcast. I didn't think I'd need a blanket to cover the viewfinder for today, but I guess I was incorrect in that assumption. Being Im almost 50 now, I also noticed I couldn't see the focus of the image with my current glasses. I have progressives, and they don't help much today for closeup. I could not for the life of me see if the image was in focus, so I made my best guess. Im assuming these sheets will probably be a toss away. I realized now I need a larger change bag as well. The Ektar lens I had stopped down to f8 and f11 when I did the shots, though one sheet I forgot to stop down, so that one is a toss away. I had the lens wide open on that one.

So this is how my shooting 4x5 went recently. Its a good thing I did this now, as I was planning to do a portrait shoot with this camera (which was cancelled), but if it did go ahead, I would have been in with troubles there.

One other thing- a Congo 400mm lens I have for my Graflex, I cannot find the serial number on it. Where do I look for that?

So in all of this, it seems I need to hone in on the current issues before I use this camera again. Anyone else have this happen to them recently?

 

[jim10219]

I'd say that's a pretty common issue. The ground glass on Graflex cameras is terrible when it comes to brightness. You can replace it, but I either use a dark cloth or shoot with the rangefinder. When shooting handheld, the rangefinder/sports finder is the only why to go, in my opinion. Well, I guess you could use the scale on track and do a zone focus thing, but that's too much hassle and guesswork for me. The hood is basically just in the way. I use mine to protect the ground glass in transport and keep the Fresnel attached. I also use a loupe to focus. But occasionally I'll just pull off the hood so I can get in there close.

 

[braxus]

The three lenses I have for my Speed Graphic are: Ektar 127mm f4.7, Fujinon 210mm f5.6, and Congo 400mm f8. How are these lenses on the Speed Graphic? I know the Ektar barely covers 4x5. I haven't used the other two lenses to know how good they are. Also is their a wide angle (like 65mm) that works on the Speed Graphic and isn't extremely expensive?

Another issue I just noticed- the latch that holds the cover closed for the front of the camera, is sticking open. I don't know if something is bent, or what. It just keeps popping back open unless I lay it flat.

 

[wombat2go]

One of the scales on the right side of the bed should (could?) be for the 127mm standard lens.
But the two scales on the Speed here are not labelled for their lens.
What I do ( rightly or wrongly) is to aim the camera (on tripod) at the moon at night and pre-set the scale at infinity using the GG.
Then the camera can be used hand held or on tripod with scale focussing and no GG, as I also found it useless in the sun.

On that lens there is not much difference in extension from infinity to the first graduation of 100 foot ( about 2 mm)
And the DOF at f/16 is about 40 foot which is nearly 1mm of extension.

Then estimate and set hyperfocal distance as needed down to about 25 foot.

Does the rangefinder work?
My Speed projects illuminated spots for close in focussing in low light but I have never used that.

 

[braxus]

I always use a tripod when shooting with the Speed Graphic. I treat it like a view camera. I rarely use movements, since I use it for mostly landscapes. The Ektar lens was not the original lens to this camera. I added later on. I don't use the rangefinder or scales, since again the lens is not stock.

 

[wombat2go]

I think the 135mm was the standard lens for the 4x5 Speed (on my one it is) so there is a good possibility one of your scales will be usable for the 127 mm.
( 127mm and 135 mm are close enough for the same scale up around infinity )

This is a crop using a Computar variable focus lens set at about 127mm and using the scales, Speed hand held
https://app.box.com/s/aqvznhvq37b4pwuyfupv

 

[Nodda Duma]

Speed Graphic is my workhorse and works well. I think the difference between mine and what you describe is:

1) I’m guessing you might not have a Fresnel on your back. The image with the hood up is plenty bright for me.

2). In my mid 40s, I now use a loupe to magnify the image on the back for focusing. Much better than trying to squint with eyes that don’t work like they used to.

 

[braxus]

Until I get my glasses with new prescription lenses put in, I do have a 8x loupe I can use.

 

[jim10219]

The three lenses I have for my Speed Graphic are: Ektar 127mm f4.7, Fujinon 210mm f5.6, and Congo 400mm f8. How are these lenses on the Speed Graphic? I know the Ektar barely covers 4x5. I haven't used the other two lenses to know how good they are. Also is their a wide angle (like 65mm) that works on the Speed Graphic and isn't extremely expensive?

Another issue I just noticed- the latch that holds the cover closed for the front of the camera, is sticking open. I don't know if something is bent, or what. It just keeps popping back open unless I lay it flat.

Unless that Congo 400mm is a telephoto, I doubt it will work on a Speed Graphic. I think a Speed has something around a foot of bellows extension, and 400mm is about 15 3/4". The 210mm should be fine though, and with plenty of room for movements.

There are a few 65mm lenses out there for 4x5. The cheapest that will work is the probably the Schneider SA 65/8. The problem is, it just BARELY covers 4x5, and even then, only really when stopped own to around f:16 or more. So you have no room for movements, but with a 65mm lens, you're going to have to set it back really far to get it to focus, which means on a Speed Graphic it'll be deep inside the housing, so you wouldn't have room for much movements anyway. Also, you'll have to drop the bed or it'll show up in the shot. There are other, faster 65mm lenses that will also work, but they tend to be a lot more expensive and larger. Though, you also get more image circle with them, which means more possibility for movements on a camera that will support that. And with any lens this wide, you'll probably need the appropriate center filter, which will likely cost you almost as much as the lens itself, sometimes more.

Generally, 90mm are the preferred wide angles for starting off in 4x5, as they tend to be a bit cheaper, easier to use, and have larger image circles. They also won't force you to drop the bed, and they'll sit outside the housing so you can actually get some movements in. Plus, they're usually wide enough that a center filter isn't as necessary. A 90mm is pretty close to a 28mm on a FF 35mm camera in viewing angle.

 

[braxus]

The Congo is a tele yes. It says tele right on front of the lens.

What 90mm do you recommend for this camera? And what size of hole in lens board would it need?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Sigh. OP, which Speed Graphic do you have? And is it really a Speed Graphic with a focal plane shutter? Anniversary Speed Graphics' minimum flange-to-film distance is 65.1 mm. Pacemaker Speed Graphics' is 66.7 mm.

To decide whether a lens can be focused to infinity on either, you have to know its flange-focal distance at infinity. Lens makers' catalogs list f-f distances, also the diameter of the circles covered, usually wide open and at f/22. The first post in this
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion contains a link to a list of links to all of the major manufacturers' catalogs. Look at the catalogs to find out which 65 mm lenses will work on your camera, then browse dealers' sites and ebay to see which, if any, fits your budget.

Whichever 65 mm lens you buy will need a center filter to be usable on 4x5, so factor that into your budget. The list has a link to an article on center filters that explains when and why they're needed and is a guide to substitutions. Not all lens makers made CFs. The ones that didn't didn't suggest which ones to use on their lenses. The article does.

About teles. Anniversary Speed Graphics' maximum extension is 342.9 mm, Pacemaker Speeds' is 323.9. Lenses with F-F distances greater than a camera's maximum extension can't be used on it.

Don't spend a penny until you've done your homework.

 

[MattKing]

Until I get my glasses with new prescription lenses put in, I do have a 8x loupe I can use.

Dollar store reading glasses serve me very well when I'm in need of magnification for close focus work.

 

[Arklatexian]

I think the 135mm was the standard lens for the 4x5 Speed (on my one it is) so there is a good possibility one of your scales will be usable for the 127 mm.
( 127mm and 135 mm are close enough for the same scale up around infinity )

This is a crop using a Computar variable focus lens set at about 127mm and using the scales, Speed hand held
https://app.box.com/s/aqvznhvq37b4pwuyfupv

As I remember back when we sold those cameras new, if the camera was sold to a newspaper photographer, the "normal" lens requested was usually the 127mm lens as these lenses were usually "stopped down" and "hand-held" when used and were preset to about 10-15 ft. in use letting depth of focus take care of any difference in focusing. When ordered from the factory that way, the rangefinder was set for the 127mm lens. Other cameras were ordered with a 135mm lens which Graflex considered as the "normal" lens for "general" use. .......Regards!

 

[braxus]

Thanks Dan. I believe mine is the Pacemaker Speed Graphic, but I'll have to check old threads to be sure the info I had years ago.

 

[braxus]

Mine originally came with the 135mm

 

[timmct]

Good stuff here...

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/wide-or-long-lenses-for-speed-graphic.17807/

https://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/focal-length-table.html

 

[timmct]

If I recall correctly, some lens boards for Speed Graphics were actually "let in" a bit to account for the short focal lengths of the wide angle lenses.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

You can try waxing your ground glass. I have a Speed Graphic that has a fresnel and I waxed the ground glass. Helps a lot with the brightness. Even just cleaning it can help a ton.

If your eyes are bad enough you should try focusing without your glasses. Mine are terrible so they naturally focus at about 7 or 8 inches. I rarely ever use a loupe.

 

[wombat2go]

and I waxed the ground glass. Helps a lot with the brightness.

What kind of wax?
Thanks

 

[wombat2go]

As I remember back when we sold those cameras new, if the camera was sold to a newspaper photographer, the "normal" lens requested was usually the 127mm lens as these lenses were usually "stopped down" and "hand-held" when used and were preset to about 10-15 ft. in use letting depth of focus take care of any difference in focusing. When ordered from the factory that way, the rangefinder was set for the 127mm lens. Other cameras were ordered with a 135mm lens which Graflex considered as the "normal" lens for "general" use. .......Regards!

Thanks for the info. There was an older Columbo on last Saturday and a photographer on the scene had, I suppose, a Crown 4x5 with the big flash.

 

[Ariston]

Braxus,

I have decided on a focal distance before, taken my speed graphic outside into bright light and focused on some object at the right distance, locked it down, then brought it back inside to take the picture at the right distance from the subject. It was a tedious process, but I haven't figured out a way to take a 4x5 photo in under a minute, anyway. I know the speed graphics were made to be faster, as far as large format goes, but the depth of field for 4x5 at close distance scares me away from doing anything fast.

 

[Dan Fromm]

If I recall correctly, some lens boards for Speed Graphics were actually "let in" a bit to account for the short focal lengths of the wide angle lenses.

I don't b'lieve, could be mistaken, there were ever recessed boards for Graphics.

If you want to use a really short lens on a Graphic, get a Crown. The 4x5 Crown's minimum extension is 52.4 mm. I think, could be mistaken, that the 47/5.6 SA XL, flange-focal distance is >=57.0 mm, depending on the shutter its in, is the shortest generally available lens that covers 4x5. It will work on a 4x5 Crown.

For 4x5 Speeds, see post #11 above.

 

[jim10219]

Keep in mind that most wide angle lenses have a longer flange focal length (the distance between the lens board and film) than actual focal length (the angle of view). So for instance, the Schneider SA 65/8 has a flange focal length of 70.5mm, which means it will work on any of the speed graphics. The Schneider SA 65/5.6 has an even longer one at 71.4mm and a 170mm image circle at f/16, which is about 15mm more than the 65/8. It's probably a better lens overall, but it's a lot more expensive.

As for a 90mm lens, if you have a Pacemaker, you'll probably want one of the 90/8 lenses. I have a Fujinon 90/5.6, and it's so large (82mm front filter) that it just barely fits inside the front hole on my Anniversary Speed Graphic. The Pacemakers use smaller front holes and smaller lens boards, so with a Pacemaker, you'd likely have to take the ground glass off the back off the camera, unscrew the rear element off the lens, install the lens onto the front standard, and then rescrew the rear element from the back of the camera before reinstalling the ground glass. It would be a pain to switch out lenses with one that big. The 90/8 lenses are a bit cheaper and smaller, and you only lose one stop and a bit of image circle. Either one has plenty for most work. Schneider, Fuji, Nikon, and Rodenstock are all equally good. You can't go wrong with any of them, (though the Nikon 90/8 is particularly desirable and thus expensive).

There are also some other 90mm lenses that would work, like the 90/6.8 Raptar. I had one for a while. They're okay, but don't have the modern coatings, as much sharpness in the corners, and usually come in old shutters that often need repair. The plus side is they're incredibly small and cheap. Stopped down, they can work quite well. As always, it depends on your budget.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

What kind of wax?
Thanks

I used Butcher's wax which is Carnauba and Beeswax I think, but you can use whatever. Renaissance Wax would work well too. I'd avoid the synthetic car waxes. Also, be careful if you have lines or anything like that on your ground glass. The solvents in the wax can remove them. And you need just a very light coat. Don't slobber it on.

I read a long time ago that old photographers used shellac or lacquer or something like that on their ground glass. I'd imagine that would work well too if you are brave enough to try it.

 

[Ian Grant]

If I recall correctly, some lens boards for Speed Graphics were actually "let in" a bit to account for the short focal lengths of the wide angle lenses.

The MPP Micro Technicals and MicroPress camerameras use coned lens boards so that with short FL lenses the front standard remains on the rear part of the rails, so the excat opposite of a recessed board. The MicroPress is essentially a Speed Graphic.

I use Speed Crown and Super Graphics and the original screens are very dim, a new screen can improve brightness by around 2 stops, adding a Fresnel really helps and makes over all screen brightness improve by a further stop. I find mine very easy to use hand held with just the focus hood.

A note some Pacemaker GG focus frames are designed to take a Fresnel under the screen (lens side) others aren't, the frames differ and if used incorrectly focus will be compromised.

I wouldn't use a 127mm Ektar they aren't designed for 5x4 and coverage is poor.

Ian