Special order Ilford films

dpurdy · Sep 3, 2008

I can't seem to find this in search but is there a possibility of special order sheet films and particularly Delta 3200 in 4x5? I am sure this has been discussed before but I can't find it.
thanks Dennis

JLP · Sep 3, 2008

Dennis, Delta 3200 is not made in sheet film unfortunately. Would love to see it in 8x10

jan

dpurdy · Sep 3, 2008

I have been told recently that Ilford will do special runs if you buy a large order. I am not sure if that is true except sometimes with the ULF. So I was wondering if the Delta 3200 could be coated onto sheet film as a special order. It seems an awful lot of people would love to see it in sheets and as you are in Gresham you would be part of quite a lot right here in Portland. So just curious if it is possible.
Dennis

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 3, 2008

Simon Galley asked about this a while back in another thread. It seemed there was more interest in the time at other special products, but there were people interested.

Simon R Galley · Sep 5, 2008

Dear David et al,

Its true we are flexible enough ( small enough ) to respond to special requirements, and we most certainly do do special makes. The issue is normally around finishing product to special sizes, or like we do with our annual ULF run when we pre-sell and make available very small run items, but that are very important to end users.

The issue around a DELTA 3200 sheet film is very different because we currently do not manufacture this in sheet film : We would need to develop an emulsion suitable for coating onto 175 micron polyester sheet film base, as it would differ significantly from the existing 35mm and 120 emulsions : We then need to coat a minimum of 5,000m2 ( why? because all our emulsions are made in an automated facility, to allow 100% consistency batch to batch, the minimum batch is emulsion to coat 5,000m2 ).

5,000m2 may not sound like a huge amount, and indeed is very small for an automated emulsion plant and why we are very flexible, but 5,000m2 is 387,882 5" x 4" sheets.

Every APUG member in the World would have to buy about 13 sheets !

We would love to do it, but the economics mean that we would have to charge too much for each pack to enable us to recover the cost of the coating within 12 months, ( the maximum under our QC regime that we could cold store product before leaving the factory ) a quick calculation shows a cost of somewhere around 3 times the cost of of HP5+ sheet film, those who may wish to try the film may be put off by its ( much ) higher price, therefore you sell less, therefore the risk is just too high.

Kind Regards

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Sal Santamaura · Sep 5, 2008

Simon R Galley said:
...The issue around a DELTA 3200 sheet film is very different because we currently do not manufacture this in sheet film : We would need to develop an emulsion suitable for coating onto 175 micron polyester sheet film base, as it would differ significantly from the existing 35mm and 120 emulsions : We then need to coat a minimum of 5,000m2 ( why? because all our emulsions are made in an automated facility, to allow 100% consistency batch to batch, the minimum batch is emulsion to coat 5,000m2).
..

Very interesting data Simon. Would it be correct to assume the same minimum order of 5,000m2, if prepaid, would convince Harman to deliver Delta 400 in sheets?

Also, what is the minimum prepaid order in m2 necessary to have an existing sheet film emulsion (Delta 100) cut and packaged in a non-standard size?

Thanks in advance for your follow up answers.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 6, 2008

Thanks for filling in the details, Simon. I'm definitely in for 13 sheets!

Chazzy · Sep 6, 2008

I can't guarantee how much I would buy, but I would certainly give Delta 3200 in sheet film serious consideration. I think that there are a number of us who are interested in hand-held photography with Technikas, Speed Graphics, Hoboes or what have you. I wish that we could put together a pre-order which would convince Ilford to make the gamble. But then, I have no idea of the expense of adapting an existing emulsion to a new support, so I'm willing to trust Simon's judgment.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 6, 2008

On a more serious note, I could see using Delta 3200 for handheld 4x5" (though I do fine with Tri-X, Acufine, and fast lenses, and some people who do this kind of work want the classic look of Tri-X, even if another film is faster) or my 5x7" Press Graflex, and I could imagine 8x10" and larger shooters using it, particularly if it can build enough density for alt-processes (anyone try this with the rollfilm?), but I don't think any one of those kinds of users would be enough to sell out the order. I could see it more as a special order film like the current ULF cuts, maybe offered every two or three years.

Ian Grant · Sep 6, 2008

It would be nice to have Delta 400 in 5x4 and 10x8 first

Ian

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 6, 2008

I agree. Delta 400 is a great film.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 6, 2008

I just used some Delta 400 in 5x7, a very old box, so there was once the knowledge of how to do it. Hopefully that knowledge is kept in the vaults of Harman/Ilford.
With that said - I wouldn't buy it. I don't need to experiment with one more emulsion.
- Thomas

ZachInIsrael · Oct 1, 2008

Put in one more person who would love 3200 in 4x5, but understands why it probably won't happen.

dpurdy · Oct 1, 2008

I am good for 13 sheets and Thomas's 13 sheets as well.
D

Zach in Israel · Oct 2, 2008

Simon,

From what you said it sounds like you just can't take the Delta 3200 emulsion and coat it onto the sheet film back, somehow that would not work for some reason? Just wondering why, I will admit I know very little about how film is made.

monkeykoder · Oct 3, 2008

I assume it wouldn't help if someone wanted it cut to 2.25X3.25 sheets...

CBG · Oct 3, 2008

I wonder if the grain characteristics of 3200 would be as interesting with the smaller magnifications of sheet film.

C

Aurum · Oct 4, 2008

Zach in Israel said:
Simon,

From what you said it sounds like you just can't take the Delta 3200 emulsion and coat it onto the sheet film back, somehow that would not work for some reason? Just wondering why, I will admit I know very little about how film is made.

I suspect they could coat it no problem, I think the issue is wether or not the coating would stay on.
The 35mm / 120 products are on acetate (Thats what it says on the datasheet), and if the LF sheets are PET, there isn't a guarentee that the emulsion will stick or be stable.
If there is something unique in the Delta 3200 formualtion, that isn't necessarily in other Ilford products, this is going to take a degree of R&D time to sort out. For a product that has low potential volumes, I'm thinking that this sort of thing is not a priority, and would only be looked at as being interesting to the lab guys in their spare time

Special order Ilford films

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Special order Ilford films

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