Special order Eastman Double-X in 4x5 sheet.

DREW WILEY · Jan 9, 2014

Thanks for the invite, Stone... And yeah, in fact my alter-ego is more likely to try something edgy in either roll film or 35mm than in sheets.
I'm a bit of a schizophenic in terms of bouncing between different styles of shooting, with different formats. I use view cameras for immaculate
highly detailed formal compositions, but small cameras for much more spontaneous things, often deliberately devoid of surplus information.

Xmas · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
That's your opinion.

And trust me, the movie industry doesn't use "middle of the road" film, period, they only settle for the best, which is why it's still around as the last B&W movie film available.

Orwo 100 and 400 ISO are also still available in cine

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
That's your opinion.

And trust me, the movie industry doesn't use "middle of the road" film, period, they only settle for the best, which is why it's still around as the last B&W movie film available.

Anyway you have no interest, that's fine, it's happening anyway.

I do agree however that PanF+ in sheet would be pretty awesome.

pretty braod generalization ..., no?
orwo, slavich, fuji kodak tasma all still make cine film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motion_picture_film_stocks

not saying it isnt a nice film, but 600$ for 100 sheets is rather pricy ...
probably the most expensive black and white film ever made ...
(id rather shoot a known quantity, on a base that isn't thin and curley )

i hope if the deal goes through they cut it to the right size ..
it would be quite the farce if after i was all said and done they cut it wrong ...
( its happened often )

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

jnanian said:
pretty braod generalization ..., no?

not saying it isnt a nice film, but 600$ for 100 sheets is rather pricy ...
probably the most expensive black and white film ever made ...
(id rather shoot a known quantity, on a base that isn't thin and curley )

i hope if the deal goes through they cut it to the right size ..
it would be quite the farce if after i was all said and done they cut it wrong ...
( its happened often )

I'm sure it will be fine, I'll try it in my normal holders but will probably follow the advice of another and ere on the side of caution and use my grafmatic holder.

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
I'm sure it will be fine, I'll try it in my normal holders but will probably follow the advice of another and ere on the side of caution and use my grafmatic holder.

hope so .. efke and others often made mistakes back in the day ( like 10 years ago )
... and they were old pros at cutting film ..

lol. wouldnt it stink to get 6$/sheet film all cut ...4x5

MartinP · Jan 9, 2014

Besides all the other manufacturers listed above, don't forget that Foma also make a few b+w cine-film materials. Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that Double-XX is the only b+w cine material made in USA.

sepiareverb · Jan 9, 2014

And in 35mm it is a nice emulsion, very old-school in look. Certainly one of the older base formulas around today, and processed carefully it can look very good. Not $6 a sheet good for me.

Enjoy it ye of bigger faith!

DREW WILEY · Jan 9, 2014

Kodak is not Efke. Fotochemika had all kinds of cutting and packaging problems due to their financial inability to maintain their facility. This fact eventually became their demise. I really liked some of their products, but the quality control was often so-so. If Kodak cuts the film, it will be correct.

gleaf · Jan 9, 2014

Kodaks cutters are roll type which use precision rolls to shear as they draw on the take up spooling. Eastman/Kodak is having to design and machine a custom roll shear pair if I remember the historic film machine photos correctly. No small task. Many ante'd in. Some hung on at the raise. We will see how the hand plays out. I've had risk managers refuse to allow their corporate lab to mix an expiramental lubricant for full price and we do the testing.... At least E/K will try it.

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

jnanian said:
hope so .. efke and others often made mistakes back in the day ( like 10 years ago )
... and they were old pros at cutting film ..

lol. wouldnt it stink to get 6$/sheet film all cut ...4x5

All kodak film is guaranteed against manufacture defects with replacement or refund, you know that.

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

MartinP said:
Besides all the other manufacturers listed above, don't forget that Foma also make a few b+w cine-film materials. Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that Double-XX is the only b+w cine material made in USA.

I meant made by kodak, sorry, that was my stupid brain not being clear.

And it's Double-X not XX

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

DREW WILEY said:
Kodak is not Efke. Fotochemika had all kinds of cutting and packaging problems due to their financial inability to maintain their facility. This fact eventually became their demise. I really liked some of their products, but the quality control was often so-so. If Kodak cuts the film, it will be correct.

drew. you forget it is the cine division that is making this, not alaris.
alaris is used to cutting sheet film, cine isnt.
alaris knows 4x5 isnt at size, as some folks do, but not everyone is that savvy,
efke cut everything 1/32" off as i remember, and they had been cutting film (adox as well ) since
the early days.. founded in 1860 earlier than Kodak ...
i dont think i it would be far fetched to think that the cine division would be clueless,
after all they have tripled the price because they foresee
problems cutting this film to sheet film sizes ( this is the stuff that is like 1$/roll in 35mm,
the sheet film price it will cost is 6x the normal price)

we can only hope they dont cut it when mercury is retrograde ..

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
All kodak film is guaranteed against manufacture defects with replacement or refund, you know that.

is it, will it?
is cutting the film the wrong size a defect,
or is that just the emulsion itself that is guaranteed.
sounds like something worth discussing ...

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

gleaf said:
Kodaks cutters are roll type which use precision rolls to shear as they draw on the take up spooling. Eastman/Kodak is having to design and machine a custom roll shear pair if I remember the historic film machine photos correctly. No small task. Many ante'd in. Some hung on at the raise. We will see how the hand plays out. I've had risk managers refuse to allow their corporate lab to mix an expiramental lubricant for full price and we do the testing.... At least E/K will try it.

Yea, if EK will agree to do it, they are probably pretty confident that the film will be fine, the base of the cine film is fairly thick to begin with.

In comparison, Ilford won't even entertain the idea of cutting PanF+ in sheet. So I'm sure this film will work, heck it's got to be better than the IR sheet film that's super thin.

wildbill · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
And trust me, the movie industry doesn't use "middle of the road" film, period, they only settle for the best, which is why it's still around as the last B&W movie film available.

Anyway you have no interest, that's fine, it's happening anyway.

that's funny. there's one left but it's the best. I like that.
What's happening anyway?

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

jnanian said:
drew. you forget it is the cine division that is making this, not alaris.
alaris is used to cutting sheet film, cine isnt.
alaris knows 4x5 isnt at size, as some folks do, but not everyone is that savvy,
efke cut everything 1/32" off as i remember, and they had been cutting film (adox as well ) since
the early days.. founded in 1860 earlier than Kodak ...
i dont think i it would be far fetched to think that the cine division would be clueless,
after all they have tripled the price because they foresee
problems cutting this film to sheet film sizes ( this is the stuff that is like 1$/roll in 35mm,
the sheet film price it will cost is 6x the normal price)

we can only hope they dont cut it when mercury is retrograde ..

Actually this is wrong, the cine division will give the film to the normal cutters and they will cut it... I don't know which "company" it will be, but the normal sheet film cutters will cut it.

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

jnanian said:
is it, will it?
is cutting the film the wrong size a defect,
or is that just the emulsion itself that is guaranteed.
sounds like something worth discussing ...

OMG John, seriously. Of course, all kodak film is, stop posting you're not helping and not even being productive, you're being a scab

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

wildbill said:
that's funny. there's one left but it's the best. I like that.
What's happening anyway?

I meant that they got rid of the other cine films and kept this because of all of them this was the best and most popular (like the beginning if the latest bond was shot on it).

It's going forward, Keith Canham is collecting the money now, about 15 more boxes need to be officially purchased (which isn't much when the total was like 300 boxes or something) and then the order will be placed with Kodak.

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Actually this is wrong, the cine division will give the film to the normal cutters and they will cut it... I don't know which "company" it will be, but the normal sheet film cutters will cut it.

thats good, considering previously it had been inferred that e cine division would be dong it all...
alaris and the cine division are in the same place ?

removed account4 · Jan 9, 2014

StoneNYC said:
OMG John, seriously. Of course, all kodak film is, stop posting you're not helping and not even being productive, you're being a scab

not being productive?
considering people are paying 6$/sheet for film
it seems that it is good to know the fine print, and seeing this is film never used for this purpose
maybe normal- guarantees might not be the same ...
not as naive as you, since i have been buying sheet film for 25 years and had troubles over that
period with kodak.
you actually think if the film is too curly and falls out of he holders kodak will refund the $$?

poorly cut film, to thin film, problems unforseen that happen after delivery ..This would normally be guaranteed
but because this is "special-request film" the normal might not apply...

this is why im not buying this film, not because i dont want the look .. but because
it is all hard sell wih no real answers aside from how it is special in 35mm and the last black and white emulsion made...

most of what you post is opinion, not fact ... lol hahaha

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

jnanian said:
not being productive?
considering people are paying 6$/sheet for film
it seems that it is good to know the fine print, and seeing this is film never used for this purpose
maybe normal- guarantees might not be the same ...
not as naive as you, since i have been buying sheet film for 25 years and had troubles over that
period with kodak.
you actually think if the film is too curly and falls out of he holders kodak will refund the $$?

poorly cut film, to thin film, problems unforseen that happen after delivery ..This would normally be guaranteed
but because this is "special-request film" the normal might not apply...

this is why im not buying this film, not because i dont want the look .. but because
it is all hard sell wih no real answers aside from how it is special in 35mm and the last black and white emulsion made...

most of what you post is opinion, not fact ...

True, my opinion, I agree, but aesthetics is all objective of course, I can't be the only one who thinks it's a good film at the price they are asking, heck I saw a lot of people COMPLAINING that the special order wasn't offered in larger formats, and I don't mean 8x10 I mean 11x14 and 20x24 sizes... Haha imagine how much that would cost hah!

You're right, it's a special order so things are different, but if you ask for 4x5 from kodak and they cut it the wrong size, obviously they would back it up, can you imagine the bad press if 300 LF photographers got stiffed, especially I'm sure a few are big shots (unlike me) so it wouldn't be good for kodak, and they've been doing this long enough to not screw it up.

Trust me the letter from kodak was thorough, regarding their attempt at cutting, etc, if the cost goes over the $300 per box they will stop attempts and refund the money, period. So they will cut and test and cut and test until either they get it right or they run out of money.

Kodak is not EFKE

clayne · Jan 9, 2014

There are close to 300 LF photographers invested in this? That's pretty cool (even if I disagree with the price).

StoneNYC · Jan 9, 2014

clayne said:
There are close to 300 LF photographers invested in this? That's pretty cool (even if I disagree with the price).

Well, let's put it this way, as far as I know... The box count needed by kodak has always been 300 boxes ordered for a run, so even though the price changed, I'm under the impression the box count stayed the same, and so some ordered 5 and 10 boxes but I think most ordered 1 or 2 boxes. So it's not quite 300 individual photographers but in total 300 boxes ordered, still shows a big commitment from those that appreciate this film.

Xmas · Jan 10, 2014

Hi

Id recommend 320 ISO 7 mins in Microphen @20C followed by three mins in Borax & dry with weight on bottom but it's not too curly.

But will the rebates have normal cine nomenclature so you can tell it from the cine sprockets film?

Noel

StoneNYC · Jan 10, 2014

Xmas said:
Hi

Id recommend 320 ISO 7 mins in Microphen @20C followed by three mins in Borax & dry with weight on bottom but it's not too curly.

But will the rebates have normal cine nomenclature so you can tell it from the cine sprockets film?

Noel

I don't know what it will say if anythjng, but I would guess it depends on the cost of the cutting, whether they will imprint anything, if they do it will say what other kodak sheet film says most likely, it won't have bar codes, but will probably say "Eastman Double-X" or something.

Special order Eastman Double-X in 4x5 sheet.

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