Source for dry resist photopolymer film?

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi there,

I'm having a hard time finding a North American source (preferably Canadian) for rolls of either,

1) Dupont's Riston MM 550, or

2) Eternal's Laminar E9220 photopolymer films...

...for making polymer photogravure plates.

Any ideas?

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Got a phone call from a DuPont distributor this morning.

They sell DuPont Riston MultiMaster 550 (50 microns thick) dry resist photopolymer film...but...it's sold in two rolls to a box, and 500' to a roll. That's several lifetimes worth for one person! Maybe a group order is in order?

He wanted to know a width (they can cut any width) so I chose 22" because fine art paper usually come in 22x30 inch sizes and some people might actually be printing that big. My printer is 13" wide, but that's probably too small for most people.

He's going to call back with a price. I told him I would reach out to other artists and see if we might do a group purchase.

Maybe there are enough of us out there who want/need this particular photopolymer?

 

[MurrayMinchin]

To put whatever price he comes back with in perspective...

Bear in mind I'm a complete rookie, having never even seen the stuff or made a polymer photogravure in my life, but those with more experience than I claim that Riston MM550 behaves identically to ImagOn...so ImagOn may be a rebranded Riston MM550 sold at a higher price.

1000' of 25" wide ImagOn comes out to $6,600.00 US dollars.

Will share the Riston price when I get it.

 

[koraks]

Murray, why not start with a film that's cheap and easy to find, and see how that goes? There's plenty of photopolymer film going round that's cheap as chips for PCB making and I have no doubt whatsoever that it will work fine for photogravure. Keep in mind that with photopolymer intaglio, what you're asking from the film is actually about the easiest job it could have: just image dots. The tricky bit is not in the film; it's in your process.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Murray, why not start with a film that's cheap and easy to find, and see how that goes? There's plenty of photopolymer film going round that's cheap as chips for PCB making and I have no doubt whatsoever that it will work fine for photogravure. Keep in mind that with photopolymer intaglio, what you're asking from the film is actually about the easiest job it could have: just image dots. The tricky bit is not in the film; it's in your process.

Because I'm so new to the game, it makes sense to use proven materials. It also eliminates one cause for errors, in that if problems arise (and they will!) I won't be running down rabbit holes in the wrong direction when the real problem was in using a photopolymer not suited to photogravures.

The plan is to lower costs so that when moving towards a final version, the deciding factor is the image itself, not that it's taking too many plates and getting too expensive where the danger becomes saying, "That's good enough".

Have to at least try, then move onto plan B (ordering small roll of ImagOn) if needed.

 

[koraks]

Murray, when I started photopolymer, I went with the 'DK3' film, which was as you said 'proven technology' at that point.

Later, I went back to my electronics hobby and messed around (and still do) a lot with photopolymers (both in liquid and film form) for PCB etching. Turns out it's all more or less the same stuff, anyway.

I can see your reasoning, but I myself wouldn't be too hesitant to get a couple of ft of the cheap stuff from eBay etc. sold for PCB making and give it a go. At least you can get your feet wet and start solving the basic problems you'll run into while you hunt around for a good source of the 'right' material.

Btw, the 'right' material often ends up only being the preferred stuff because the guy/gal who publishes about it happened to get their hands on it easily and cheaply. There's often very little magic to it - except for a 'magic' price uplift in arts circles because it's the 'right' stuff.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Murray, when I started photopolymer, I went with the 'DK3' film, which was as you said 'proven technology' at that point.

Later, I went back to my electronics hobby and messed around (and still do) a lot with photopolymers (both in liquid and film form) for PCB etching. Turns out it's all more or less the same stuff, anyway.

I can see your reasoning, but I myself wouldn't be too hesitant to get a couple of ft of the cheap stuff from eBay etc. sold for PCB making and give it a go. At least you can get your feet wet and start solving the basic problems you'll run into while you hunt around for a good source of the 'right' material.

Btw, the 'right' material often ends up only being the preferred stuff because the guy/gal who publishes about it happened to get their hands on it easily and cheaply. There's often very little magic to it - except for a 'magic' price uplift in arts circles because it's the 'right' stuff.

There's wisdom in what you say.

Still don't have an etching press, but may try a baren on Kozo to get my feet wet, as you suggest.

 

[Dan McGuire]

1000' of 25" wide ImagOn comes out to $6,600.00 US dollars.

Will share the Riston price when I get it.

That’s going to sting!

Keep me in mind for distribution

 

[MurrayMinchin]

That’s going to sting!

Keep me in mind for distribution

Will do.

First distributor hasn't gotten back to me with a price, but second one is supposed to get back on Monday, Nov 6th.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

That’s going to sting!

Keep me in mind for distribution

Three distributors have gotten back to me and are looking for widths of the rolls.

My printer (Epson P600) goes to 13" widths, but other people might have a P900 which can make plates 17" wide.

No prices yet, but if anybody is interested in a group purchase, what would be the width you are looking for?

The rolls can be either 13 1/2" or 17 1/2 " wide. There are larger sizes available for larger printers (24", 36", and 48") but at some point it will get too expensive for people with smaller printers.

 

[Assar]

Please count me in for a bulk order. My printer goes to 17"

 

[MurrayMinchin]

**Group orders not required**

The prices I was quoted in US dollars were:

1) DuPont Riston MM550 (two 500' rolls minimum order) was .60 cents per square foot.

2) Eternal E9220 (one 250' roll minimum order) was .27 cents per square foot from IEC (International Electronic Components).

There might be a two week delay before they cut to the 13.5" wide and 250' long roll I requested, but that's okay! My patience can be purchased for a $78.76 price tag. That, and not having to wrangle an international group order together make this a slam-dunk choice.

Might be a little extra effort applying film to plates, but the money factor won't be as strident as with pre-made plates or regular dry resist photopolymers re-branded and sold for extra cost.

International Electronic Components | Consumables

International Electronic Components Inc. (IEC) is a leading supplier of consumables, equipment, and services to the printed circuit board industry in both Canada and the United States. International Electronic Components Inc. @ copyright 2025

www.ieccan.com

 

[koraks]

My patience can be purchased for a $78.76 price tag.

Peanuts! Have fun with that!

Might be a little extra effort applying film to plates

Oh, you'll figure that out. For me, a hairdryer turned out to be the magic item. Laminate the film and then blast it with the hairdryer at high heat to make it adhere. There's a temperature window where the polymer solidifies but retains its UV-hardening properties. Heat it up too long or at too high temperature and it tends to show weird post-exposure behavior, but as long as you don't overdo it, it'll stick very nicely. In electronics manufacturing the polymer is also cured (after spray- or spin-coating) at relatively high temperature until it's no longer sticky, and then exposed.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Oh, you'll figure that out. For me, a hairdryer turned out to be the magic item. Laminate the film and then blast it with the hairdryer at high heat to make it adhere. There's a temperature window where the polymer solidifies but retains its UV-hardening properties. Heat it up too long or at too high temperature and it tends to show weird post-exposure behavior, but as long as you don't overdo it, it'll stick very nicely. In electronics manufacturing the polymer is also cured (after spray- or spin-coating) at relatively high temperature until it's no longer sticky, and then exposed.

Good point and thanks for the tips.

The sales rep I talked to mentioned specific temperature and pressure requirements for adhesion, and got a chuckle about the hair drier idea. He said artists and the military were always surprising him with weird requests and applications. I let him know how uncomfortable I was with that association. We had a good conversation with plenty of laughs.

Must say that IEC has been great, stellar, top-notch to deal with compared to all the others contacted during this quest.

 

[koraks]

Sounds like a nice call you had. Great to hear how responsive they've been and that they're willing to spend time on such a relatively small order to begin with!
Yes, I imagine it's amusing for them to hear what kind of weird solution we come up with. I guess the alternative is to construct a laminating line and a curing oven, but this multi-$k investment may be odd in relation to a $78 purchase of film!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

When you put it that way, it's like waltzing into a Rolls Royce dealership and inquiring what the price of a hood ornament retaining nut would be. I should be ashamed of myself, but artist types have been historically inured to public ridicule on the path toward a goal.

 

[MattKing]

They talk to the artists, because sometimes the single phone call turns into a YouTube sensation and lots of new and unpredicted sales.
Also, some sales people actually enjoy talking to people about their products, and like to hear about new uses.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Kudos to IEC (International Electronic Components) for selling dry resist photopolymers in 250 foot lengths and for top notch customer service.

I left a message at their 1-800# in Canada and was phoned back within 30 minutes. A sales rep called within a couple days who was really curious about how polymer photogravurists were using photopolymer films. Once he realized that thin continuous lines weren't required, but instead itty bitty tiny 'pits' which held ink to be pressed into paper, he got it. Another person with online sales kept me informed along the way.

The price for a 13.5 inch wide by 250 foot long roll of Eternal E9220 came to $78.76 US without shipping. Will take about 3 weeks to get here, but its affordable, guaranteed fresh, and no group order required. Me so happy!

International Electronic Components | Consumables

International Electronic Components Inc. (IEC) is a leading supplier of consumables, equipment, and services to the printed circuit board industry in both Canada and the United States. International Electronic Components Inc. @ copyright 2025

www.ieccan.com

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Update:

Tried the usually recommended 10% sodium carbonate solution for 10 minutes to 'develop' the plates, but the E9220 ended up being extremely brittle and flaked off easily.

Eternal's technical data sheet for E9220 recommends a 'development' time of 60 to 70 seconds in a 0.85% sodium carbonate solution at 30C. That might be fine in a massive industrial machine, but hardly doable for hand washing out polymer photogravure plates.

A first stab in the dark guesstimate for a useable washout procedure was to try 5% sodium carbonate at 65 degrees F (basement in winter darkroom) for 3 minutes while using a hake brush after 30 seconds. Dried it via blotting and 5 minutes with a hairdryer on high, then back under the UV light (fifteen 24" Barrina UV LED light bars on about 1.25" centres) for 2 minutes.

This resulted in a coated plate where the photopolymer doesn't chip easily...you really have to dig at it with a fingernail for it to lift, even at the corners.

To strip the photopolymer film from reusable PETG plates, I tried isopropyl alcohol but it didn't work well at all, and it stinks.

I don't have dry sodium hydroxide, so found a grocery store solution. I read that drain cleaners/openers are somewhere around a 50% solution of sodium hydroxide. Found a budget liquid drain opener that contained sodium hydroxide and a small amount of surfactant.

Slowly added 100ml of the drain opener to 900ml of water (a ballpark 5%-ish solution) and it completely cleared a plate in a bit over 20 minutes. Added another 100ml and the photopolymer completely lifted off in under 15 minutes.

Anyways...just sharing some findings from a complete newbie clawing up the learning curve

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Update:

Tried the usually recommended 10% sodium carbonate solution for 10 minutes to 'develop' the plates...

Holy Cow!!!

That should have been a 1% solution.

Therefore, current E9220 washout is: 3 minutes in a 0.5% solution!

Massive error...hanging head in shame...so sorry...

 

[Dalachin]

Holy Cow!!!

That should have been a 1% solution.

Therefore, current E9220 washout is: 3 minutes in a 0.5% solution!

Massive error...hanging head in shame...so sorry...

I was wondering if you had continued to have success with E9220… I’m in the process of getting some to try.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I was wondering if you had continued to have success with E9220… I’m in the process of getting some to try.

I still don't have, or have access to, an etching press...so have only made the most basic of tests. Wish I could be of more help!

 

[Dalachin]

Thanks for the response! I guess I’ll get some and give it a go. Solarplates have worked great but… $$$.