Sorta Urgent... Have to find an alternative source for Plain Hypo.

photomem · Oct 18, 2009

As some of you know from my previous threads, I am working on Albumen printing for a project at school. Well, because of some stupid things like H1N1 vaccinations and stuff eating up instruction hours, my prof has decided to move the deadline for our projects up a week. This means that the project is now due Wednesday. I have got to find an alternative source for Hypo that I can get in town. The local camera shop only has Regular Kodak Hardening Fix, which I understand will bleach the prints. I tried Leslie's Pool Supply, but the only chlorine reducer they have is Sodium Sulfite, not Sulfate. There are many other pool and aquarium stores in town, so I thought maybe there might be some chemicals some of you had worked with which I could source from them.

Just FYI, I do not have the funds to order from one of the online supply shops, plus I believe that plain Hypo is ORMD which would have to be shipped ground.

If any of you have any suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Thanks,
Tommy.

Jerevan · Oct 18, 2009

Hypo is sold at pool suppliers, under another name. See if you can find one in your local area.

trexx · Oct 18, 2009

I just tried a snip test with the chlorine neutralizer from leslie pool. I get no clearing in over 5 min. Other other pool supply have sodium thiosulfate. Pool Test Kits have sodium thiosulfate. Just tried on a snip test with some and it clears slowly and the half ounce they sell would not do a sheet of paper. Some fertilizer has ammonium thiosulfate, but doubt strong enough for your needs.

Just re-read your post. The hardening is an additive you get to choose to add or not. So go for it.

photomem · Oct 18, 2009

I wish i had a choice on whether or not to add the hardener. This is the kodak powder that has the hardener mixedin already. Sorry for the botched typing, posting from my iPod on a shoot.

Photo Engineer · Oct 18, 2009

If you can get the Kodak liquid kit that comes in 2 parts, you can omit the hardener bottle and it should work. If it causes problems, adjust the pH from an acid value more towards pH 7, but no higher than 6.5. Do the adjusting with either 28% acetic acid or 2% household ammonia. Most likely you will have to use ammonia.

If you have to use ammonia, you will need to make the fixer a bit more concentrated to compensate for dilution by ammonia solution. Make sure you use the non-scented, non-detergent variety from the grocers.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2009

Lacking plain hypo, I'd try plain Kodak Fixer, the powder, which is a sodium thiosulfate based fixer. The problem isn't the hardener per se, so much as how quickly the fixer acts, and then it might depend on what the hardener is, how acidic the solution, and other factors.

The trick is, the print needs to be fixed completely without bleaching it right off the page. If it isn't fixed completely, you'll have undeveloped, unfixed silver halide in the emulsion that will print out as the print is exposed to light, leaving brown marks on the print. The prewash before toning is also important in preventing this problem. Before toning, the print should be rinsed until it stops releasing a milky residue.

Kodak Rapid Fixer even without the hardener I think is going to bleach an albumen print too quickly, and will be harder to control, and the same would be true of other ammonium thiosulfate based fixers, which are generally sold as liquids.

Even with a sodium thiosulfate based fixer, you'll get some bleaching and color change, and you also get bleaching and color change in the toner, which is why the exposed print needs to look about two stops overexposed before toning and fixing.

Also, look up "The Chemistry Store" to see if they can ship you some hypo faster than the other photo suppliers.

juan · Oct 18, 2009

When I checked a year or so ago, Leslie's had sodium thiosulfate in the catalog, so your local store may be able to order some in time. I think it was this one.

Good luck.
juan

photomem · Oct 18, 2009

I went to a pet shop and picked up a couple of things. The guy is almost sure that this liquid Weco DeChlor is Sodium Thiosulphate. The other thing is Hikari Stress-X which lists Thio as its main ingredient, though I cannot seem to find out the concentration. If anyone has tried either of these, let me know.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2009

DeChlor might be right, if it's the same product as this--

http://www.aldenleeds.com/DECHLOR.pdf

If it's in the form of dry crystals or a powder, it may just be straight hypo. If it's a liquid, maybe not, and there could be some other things in there as preservatives.

photomem · Oct 18, 2009

OK, so the stuff I have is 30.2% Sodium Thiosulphate with EDTA as a preservative. I found the MSDS for regular Kodak Fix, and it lists 10% Thio in the working solution. By my estimation, then I should be able to mix this down to 10% Thio to use as fix. Or am I just nuts?

McFortner · Oct 18, 2009

I've bought Sodium Thiosulfate Penta from http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/ and I use it as my fixer. I use 2/3 of a cup in 2 liters of water and have no problems.

Michael

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2009

photomem said:
OK, so the stuff I have is 30.2% Sodium Thiosulphate with EDTA as a preservative. I found the MSDS for regular Kodak Fix, and it lists 10% Thio in the working solution. By my estimation, then I should be able to mix this down to 10% Thio to use as fix. Or am I just nuts?

If that's all it is, you should be okay, but be aware that there may be ingredients not listed in the MSDS.

I use a 15% solution of plain hypo, two baths, four minutes in each bath for albumen. I usually process two prints back to back and flip the prints halfway through each bath.

So you should be able to mix one part of your aquarium solution with one part water and be close enough.

photomem · Oct 18, 2009

Thanks for the help David. Tomorrow is the big day..

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2009

Good luck! Post some scans when you've got them.

Lowell Huff · Oct 19, 2009

We sell Sodium Thiosulfate, anhydrus and pentahydrate. since we use these chemicals in our products, you don't have any concerns about what contaminants might be in the Hypo to treat water.

Sorta Urgent... Have to find an alternative source for Plain Hypo.

photomem

Jerevan

trexx

photomem

Photo Engineer

David A. Goldfarb

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juan

photomem

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photomem

McFortner

David A. Goldfarb

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photomem

David A. Goldfarb

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Lowell Huff

Sorta Urgent... Have to find an alternative source for Plain Hypo.

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