Sorry if I sound like a jerk , but does anyone really care ?

removed account4 · May 1, 2019

Sorry if I sound like a jerk but does anyone really care, I mean really care?
I know the big thing about photographers, any kind, is to make photographs that last a long time.
Years, decades or centuries are better. But to be honest does anyone really care about the photos we or most photographers or hobbyists or whatever make ??

I did say SORRY before this and in the title because I am sorry. I know most people enjoy what they are doing and want others to be able to see what they have loved doing and maybe get a kick or be inspired by the things that we might have found interesting, or what some may say " our passion" ..

I know when I am all done I don't think anyone will really care about anything I have done. I think maybe someone might like some of the streetscape or mundane photos i have taken over the years only to "see what xyz " looked like but other than that no one really cares.

Are you OK with that ? and IF SO.. why is everyone so hung up on "archival negatives and archival prints" ?

MattKing · May 1, 2019

Here is an example of why you might want to care:
https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/w-j-moore-cirkut-negatives/digitalobject/browse

etn · May 1, 2019

Agree with you. I am not an artist - just a guy trying to have fun with his toys (a bass, a saxophone, a camera, and a few other things.) I don’t do archival prints. I however archive my negs and slides in a way that I can reliably use them 20 years from now. But that’s just for me.

Etienne

removed account4 · May 1, 2019

Thanks Matt
I looked, but nothing but page 1 loaded, and on page 1 only 1 image loaded for me. While I understand the intereste in a baseball team and Circut Camera Negatives
Absolutely nothing I have done has any importance like opening day of a 19teens baseball team, except for a few mundane photographs I have made ( as mentioned ).
I hope whatever service whoever it is that might find whatever i did interesting is better than the one you linked to, even with fast internet and an up to date browser
nothing loaded but 1 out of 400 images

mshchem · May 1, 2019

The obsession with "archival" was a big thing really gaining steam in the 70's selling plastic print washers and the like. I've always followed good practices, document my negatives. I love printing on fiber paper, toning and washing.
But you are right at some point it will all be tossed unless a historical group finds interest in my documentary stuff.
Museums are more likely to refuse than take unknown work. Once they take, they have to care for it.
I enjoy fussing over prints for my own personal pleasure.
But really in the end probably won't be that important.

mshchem · May 1, 2019

Also I've got hundreds of photos well over 100 years old. Before these guys even had running water and the prints look great.

Theo Sulphate · May 1, 2019

It's all about you enjoying the process of photography, whatever that process may consist of.

Occasionally at a swap meet, or even a gun show, I'll pass a table that had someone's not-too-old photos and I'll buy a couple either because I thought the photo or someone in it looked interesting.

mshchem · May 1, 2019

One other point I have accumulated 4 archival washers over the years. The biggest two that I got, for about 10 cents on the dollar, had been bought in a rush of enthusiasm, they had never been used, I had to peel the protective paper off the dividers, after being on for 10-15 years took some doing to get the paper off. These washers don't ensure perfect washing. A simple shuffling of prints in a tray with a few changes of water can do better.

winger · May 1, 2019

jnantz said:
Thanks Matt
I looked, but nothing but page 1 loaded, and on page 1 only 1 image loaded for me. While I understand the intereste in a baseball team and Circut Camera Negatives
Absolutely nothing I have done has any importance like opening day of a 19teens baseball team, except for a few mundane photographs I have made ( as mentioned ).
I hope whatever service whoever it is that might find whatever i did interesting is better than the one you linked to, even with fast internet and an up to date browser
nothing loaded but 1 out of 400 images

Though I wonder if they thought in the early 1900s that those images would be viewed by anyone in the 2000s? They might not have thought they were that interesting either.

A few years ago, I did some printing for someone who had some old glass negatives they wanted real prints from. He'd gotten them at an auction and hadn't been able to get good scans himself, so I made contact prints. Several of them were of brand new....(dramatic pause).... telephone poles. Yes, effort was put into documenting telephone poles. So anything we shoot today has to matter as much as those shots did.

Though I completely understand what you mean and kinda agree. I wash my film and prints as well as I can, though I don't tone (yet). I'm under no illusion that my images will be viewed after I'm gone (maybe a few of family). But I'm not going to stop making images because I do it mostly for me. I absolutely wish I was selling them all over and making money at it, but I suck at marketing and am not organized.

CMoore · May 1, 2019

I suppose it is important to understand that the OP is talking about YOUR Photos/Negs.....not anybody else.
I would think it doubtful, but i could be wrong, that most of our Photo/Neg will last much longer than we will.
Is there some random organization that people can will their stuff to, and then that group will "preserve" it for some reason.?
If my photos look "right" for a few years, i assume they are fine. I am 60 years old, so No, i do not care what my photos look like in 70 years.
I try to make sure my Negs are "Archival".....but again, who for.?
I am not talking about somebody that is a member of Magnum, or a group like that, i am simply referring to the "Average Photographer". For every One Thousand photographers, how may Vivian Meyers are there..... Zero.?
I reckon that is the real question. How is your stuff going to survive YOU, that it needs to be archival.?
And again, maybe that is easy to do.? I have no idea.
Unless there will be some kind of photographic by-line to explain the photos, or unless the photos are somewhat "Iconic" and there is a date that accompanies the obvious Content/Context of the picture.....how will anybody grasp the concept or relevance of the photo.?
You might have a series of photos that show Dan White being taken away in handcuffs, but in 100 years from today, who would even recognize who he was and what he had done.?
How or why will anybody know your stuff is important.?

Truzi · May 1, 2019

I care. I have several generations of family pictures, and that does mean something to me. It may matter to my descendants (if I ever have any). What I do differently than my predecessors is label who/what the photos are. So yes, I want my photos to last as long as possible, just as my parents', grandparents', and great-grandparents' photos have (so far).

I've a coworker who immigrated from Romania to the USA while he was in high school. I told him to document his family history and stories - to write it down - because it may not mean much to his children, but his grandchildren will probably want to know their roots.

Jnantz, I'm surprised this isn't one of your usual polls; it will make the impetus slightly more difficult to find

jim10219 · May 1, 2019

I don't care about archivalness. It's just prolonging the inevitable. I don't care about the print after I'm done with it. The idea of the print is what matters to me. And as we all know, the idea is the only thing pure and untainted by the compromise of reality.

Nothing we do lasts forever. Good or bad. The law of entropy means eventually everything fades and returns to zero. One day you will die. And everyone you ever knew will also die. And everyone who knew you will die. And everyone who knew of you will die. And everything you've ever done will be lost, disintegrated, and forgotten. There will be nothing to prove you ever existed. Think about history. How many people do you know of who lived ten years ago? How about 100 years ago? A thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? The more time that passes, the less is remembered until eventually, the facts and the fantasy are the same.

So it's easy to see how nothing has any meaning or is worth caring about if everything is fleeting and doomed to oblivion. But that's not true either. Meaning, value, significance; they all are relative. And that is the purpose of our lives. We exist to give meaning. Our purpose in this universe is to care. It's not the greater universe that matters, but the individual worlds that each of us create that matter. We are each a unique event and we must embrace that occurance that is so rare, that in the vastness of infinity, we only happen once.

So does it matter if no one cares about your work? It does if that matters to you. That's the power you wield. So forget about the outside world. Any significance it holds, it does so because you let it. You determine your own level of engagement. So do what you want. Explore the things you want to know. Feel the things you want to experience. Be the things you dream. Whether you succeed, fail, or stall, it eventually won't matter to the world. You are free in the truest sense of the word, for better and worse. Your perspective is the only reality you will ever know. So get out there and make it a good one!

MattKing · May 1, 2019

I'm sorry the link didn't load well for jnantz.
The Vancouver Archives has an absolutely amazing collection of Cirkut negatives that were shot during the early to mid 20th century (mostly) around the Vancouver area. While it is no doubt the case that some were shot to record special occasions, and therefore intended to last a long time, there are many in the collection that were shot on "spec" and give a really wonderful sense of history.
Persevere if the link doesn't load quickly, once you click on the individual images, they tend to reveal a wonderful world.
I think that I take from these that it is worthwhile to take care with your photography. If extra care will mean that my photographs will last longer, there is a good chance that if I or others are around 30+ years from now, I'll be happy I did so.
These are from my father's youth - around 90 years ago. He is no longer around, nor is my grandfather. If these prints hadn't been cared for well, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy them, or scan them for sharing here.
And yes, I look a lot like my Dad.

mshchem · May 2, 2019

MattKing said:
I'm sorry the link didn't load well for jnantz.
The Vancouver Archives has an absolutely amazing collection of Cirkut negatives that were shot during the early to mid 20th century (mostly) around the Vancouver area. While it is no doubt the case that some were shot to record special occasions, and therefore intended to last a long time, there are many in the collection that were shot on "spec" and give a really wonderful sense of history.
Persevere if the link doesn't load quickly, once you click on the individual images, they tend to reveal a wonderful world.
I think that I take from these that it is worthwhile to take care with your photography. If extra care will mean that my photographs will last longer, there is a good chance that if I or others are around 30+ years from now, I'll be happy I did so.
These are from my father's youth - around 90 years ago. He is no longer around, nor is my grandfather. If these prints hadn't been cared for well, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy them, or scan them for sharing here.
And yes, I look a lot like my Dad.
View attachment 222744

Great photos Matt.
Family photos are precious. I've got black and white prints my Dad started making in the mid 40's. Kodachrome starting 1949. My nephews love this stuff. I've got photos of 3 of my GGGrandfathers two fought for the north, one for the south. The other one was still in Germany. I've inherited most of the photos from my Dad's dad and his siblings. Amazing stuff. If I hadn't been around when my lone surviving Uncle went to a care facility there would have been 100s of photos tossed by my cousins.

summicron1 · May 2, 2019

Speaking as an archivist, I can tell you that there are people who most definitely care. I work with Weber State University's Special Collections (In Ogden, Utah) and the history archive in Ogden's Union Station museums.

Family photos are always wanted -- they show the normal folk who build this city and give it life. Pictures of people, events, history, even mundane traffic accidents are all treasures in the future that we want now.

I recently scanned in 100 images from negatives shot by a professional photographer around Ogden more than 100 years ago -- Probably for a special section of the newspaper on the town's many amazing buildings that the paper did to show the outside world what a wonderful place Ogden is. They're nothing all that special, but someone with a good camera who knew how to use it spent a lot of time recording moments in Ogden's history and they were magically preserved because someone cared.

The hardest thing we have to do is to convince people that their personal histories are important and worth preserving. Folks who weren't famous or who didn't make huge discoveries think they dont matter to history, but they are precisely who need most to be preserved because they did the real work and the real living.

Go talk to your local history museum, university special collections or something similar. They really really care. A box with your work, and your personal history, in the archives for future historians to ponder would be a lovely thing, don't you think?

CMoore · May 2, 2019

KN4SMF said:
It depends on the subject matter. For instance I refuse to photograph anything depicting multiculturalism. It is a purposefully and artificially engineered state of being, and a lie. I would never choose to archive such an outrage as it may convey to future viewers that I approved or participated. Family and scenic photos are quite another matter. That IS important.

Would you give us your definition of "Multiculturalism" .?

summicron1 · May 2, 2019

KN4SMF said:
Sorry. for the post. It borders on untopical and political. But I see it so much and it infuriates me. I like the older photographs and films from before the policy was implimented. Lets say I know propaganda when I see it.

i haven't got a clue what yur talking about either but, hey, take pictures of whatever you want. Or don't.

Your camera. Your film.

CMoore · May 2, 2019

KN4SMF said:
Sorry. for the post. It borders on untopical and political. But I see it so much and it infuriates me. I like the older photographs and films from before the policy was implimented. Lets say I know propaganda when I see it.

You comments do not "border" on anything.
They sit smack dab in the middle of Bigotry and Racism.

mshchem · May 2, 2019

summicron1 said:
Speaking as an archivist, I can tell you that there are people who most definitely care. I work with Weber State University's Special Collections (In Ogden, Utah) and the history archive in Ogden's Union Station museums.

Family photos are always wanted -- they show the normal folk who build this city and give it life. Pictures of people, events, history, even mundane traffic accidents are all treasures in the future that we want now.

I recently scanned in 100 images from negatives shot by a professional photographer around Ogden more than 100 years ago -- Probably for a special section of the newspaper on the town's many amazing buildings that the paper did to show the outside world what a wonderful place Ogden is. They're nothing all that special, but someone with a good camera who knew how to use it spent a lot of time recording moments in Ogden's history and they were magically preserved because someone cared.

The hardest thing we have to do is to convince people that their personal histories are important and worth preserving. Folks who weren't famous or who didn't make huge discoveries think they dont matter to history, but they are precisely who need most to be preserved because they did the real work and the real living.

Go talk to your local history museum, university special collections or something similar. They really really care. A box with your work, and your personal history, in the archives for future historians to ponder would be a lovely thing, don't you think?

I've been going through my family's oldest photos, I have a tin type of my Mom's father's father. And some photos that are local to Iowa City from one of the cities earliest photographers. The state historical society will be interested. One picture is of a class from a country school house taken before summer break, none of the kids have shoes. Totally normal. It was warm you went barefoot. Couldn't afford shoes to get all muddy

jamesaz · May 2, 2019

jnantz said:
Sorry if I sound like a jerk but does anyone really care, I mean really care?
I know the big thing about photographers, any kind, is to make photographs that last a long time.
Years, decades or centuries are better. But to be honest does anyone really care about the photos we or most photographers or hobbyists or whatever make ??

I did say SORRY before this and in the title because I am sorry. I know most people enjoy what they are doing and want others to be able to see what they have loved doing and maybe get a kick or be inspired by the things that we might have found interesting, or what some may say " our passion" ..

I know when I am all done I don't think anyone will really care about anything I have done. I think maybe someone might like some of the streetscape or mundane photos i have taken over the years only to "see what xyz " looked like but other than that no one really cares.

Are you OK with that ? and IF SO.. why is everyone so hung up on "archival negatives and archival prints" ?

For what it's worth I like the work you've posted here. As far as archivalness goes the normal "good practices" of avoiding over fixing and proper washing is all that's required for Loc.gov submissions so I think at least some of the seeming obsession fits in the immortality/ego box. Some say a client or patron expects to buy something as an investment so it must be as close to permanent as possible but I suspect that is more of a way to not pay as much.
For me, when I make something I like I frame it and give it to one of my kids. If it ends up in a yard sale, so what? I've already got whatever I'm going to get out of it and thats what i do care about. The rest? It's only photography.

Adrian Bacon · May 2, 2019

jnantz said:
Sorry if I sound like a jerk but does anyone really care, I mean really care?
I know the big thing about photographers, any kind, is to make photographs that last a long time.
Years, decades or centuries are better. But to be honest does anyone really care about the photos we or most photographers or hobbyists or whatever make ??

I did say SORRY before this and in the title because I am sorry. I know most people enjoy what they are doing and want others to be able to see what they have loved doing and maybe get a kick or be inspired by the things that we might have found interesting, or what some may say " our passion" ..

I know when I am all done I don't think anyone will really care about anything I have done. I think maybe someone might like some of the streetscape or mundane photos i have taken over the years only to "see what xyz " looked like but other than that no one really cares.

Are you OK with that ? and IF SO.. why is everyone so hung up on "archival negatives and archival prints" ?

My personal family photos matter to me and my family, but outside of that, probably not much else. Stuff that I shoot more artistically I have no doubt that nobody cares. Some of it is visually interesting, but worth money? Meh. That sort of stuff I do for the enjoyment of it.

Theo Sulphate · May 2, 2019

summicron1 said:
Speaking as an archivist, I can tell you that there are people who most definitely care.
...
I recently scanned in 100 images from negatives shot by a professional photographer around Ogden more than 100 years ago...

Not to derail the thread, but you and others might find the Portland Grid Project interesting. I'm fascinated by it and wish I were there to participate:

https://www.portlandgridproject.com/content/about

"In October 1995 local photographer Christopher Rauschenberg took a pair of scissors to a standard map of Portland and cut it into 98 pieces. He then invited a group of 12 Portland photographers, using a variety of cameras, films, formats, and digital processes, to all photograph the randomly selected square each month. By 2005 they had covered every square mile of Portland and shown each other over 20,000 images. With the addition of new faces and perspectives, the Portland Grid Project continues looking at our ever-changing city in Round Three, now in its first year."

Richard Man · May 2, 2019

You do seem to care a lot about what other people do with their time ~_o

awty · May 2, 2019

I want my pictures to last long enough to be a burden on my children and my children's children and their children. Its important that they know how superior darkroom prints are to any digital technology now and in the future, when Im not around to tell them.

Ces1um · May 2, 2019

I don't think anybody cares at all about the average photos that I take. Now when I take a photo of our family for birthdays, Christmas, etc... then people in my family care about my photography because I'm making a historical record of some important event. That's when my photography matters to other people. I don't pursue photography as a hobby though for other people. I do it solely for my own enjoyment.
As for archiving, etc...- I would hope my important photos that I choose to print will hold up over time (why I bring them to a proper photo lab) but in this day of digital archiving I think the stress is off when it comes to wondering will my photos last over the course of my life.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk , but does anyone really care ?

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Sorry if I sound like a jerk , but does anyone really care ?

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