Sophie's choice: Leica M4-P or Contax G2

mrisney · Dec 24, 2009

I have spent a good amount of 2009, pretty much in love with my Mamiya 6.
My trusty old Leica M4-P has gotten less use, as 120 Portra 160NC shot with
my Mamiya 75mm pretty much does everything I need for film.

I have heard about the G2, and have an opportunity to do a swap, having never been
able to purchase Elmarit's or Summilux'es, I have been making do with a Cosina Voigtlaner
40mm MC 1.4 (great fast lens!), and 90mm Summicron Canadian 55 lens.

My old M4-P is very nice, and I enjoy it, but the Mamiya 6 does rangefinder photography better IMO

So it's at the end of a year, end of a decade. My M4-P has been a trusty friend for years, never failed me
but I cannot afford German Leica lenses. Money is an issue, I can't keep both.

So if you had to do an almost Sophie's choice, between M4-P with 2 bargain M lenses.
And a G2 black kit with all 3 lenses and a TLA 280 Flash, with the smart aluminium Contax case,
what would you choose ?

The answer seems slightly towards the G2. But I must say the all mechanical M4-P and the emotional attachment I have
is something to consider. But then again, as mentioned the Mamiya 6 has been the love of my life this past year.

Markok765 · Dec 24, 2009

I think you should keep the Leica. You don't need to buy the expensive lenses to get great results, a summicron is mad sharp.

In addition, AF can fail you, and mechanical won't. The Leica will keep its value better as well.

df cardwell · Dec 24, 2009

The G2 is freaking amazing. It will even focus where IT thinks the picture is.

Sadly, it is wrong.

Don't let go of the Leica.

juanito · Dec 24, 2009

Hi,

You said that you are not using de M4-P because you have a Mamiya 6, the question is: are you really going to use the G4? If MF plaeses you so much
why are you going to buy another 35mm?
How many lenese for the Mamiya 6 you allready own?

mrisney · Dec 24, 2009

I have all 3 lenses for the Mamiya 3. They are legend sharp. But, they are slow. 35mm is supposed to be fast, and compact. Focusing a manual 35mm Leica M is not necessarily fast, and I have to use a top mounted meter, but I learned how to take images with that camera, how to do DOF proper, how to meter, how to choose aperture, push, and understand framing, the 3rds, basic composure,etc.

In short, I learned how to become a photographer on a manual M, and I would recommend that approach to anyone, strip it down to the basics and from there, manipulating a Nikon D3X or Canon 5D is not daunting at all. Having said that, I wanted a Contax T2, or a yashica t4, but I do not believe in accumulating too much gear, I think that hinders photography to a degree, and then one spends to much time thinking about all the variables of what lens, what camera, and what film, etc...

The auto ..evreything that the G2 offers is appealing, and the lenses are said to be something. I think that the pure manual aspect of Leica M - is gotten from my Mamiya, so it maybe time to let the M4-P go.

In the back of my mind, I am aware of the cult of film that is growing, yes I shoot FF digital, but I am seeing more and more colleagues, going back to Film, because gear is cheap, and some of the dedicated film scanners that are available make film a very attractive second outfit. My thinking is that once I let it go, I will regret it.

If anyone has moved some fine gear around for a G2 setup, I would love to hear what you have to say. Regrets or no regrets, comments appreciated.

df cardwell · Dec 24, 2009

If anyone has moved some fine gear around for a G2 setup, I would love to hear what you have to say

If paying cash when it was an expensive camera counts as moving gear around....

I bought the whole set-up, shot thousands of pictures with it, and when it came down to it, it is a great snap shooter and not a real camera. Meaning that when I could accept what it gave me, it was great. When I needed something involving precise focus, or the simple responsiveness of the Leica, it fell short.

The Mamiya and Leica don't do the same job. The day when you want what the Mamiya can't deliver, you'll want the Leica.

juanito · Dec 24, 2009

I use to have a Contax G1, I sell it because the autofocus was unreliable, it seems that it was improved in the G2, but you only know if the autofocus is correct until you have the negatives. In your case I will keep yhe Leica.

Lee L · Dec 24, 2009

Electronic failure in the body on the G2, if irreparable, means you either shell out for a not very common used replacement body or sell off the lenses at a loss. Contax isn't around any more. In the long run, I can't see the G2 being a good deal from that perspective. The M4-P is likely to be usable and/or reparable long beyond the life of the G2, and a vast array of lenses are available in M-mount. And don't fool yourself. Just because your Summicron says Canada on it and you have a V/C 40mm, you are not just 'making do'. Those who'd claim you can't shoot well with those lenses are the ones who are making doo.

Lee

DaveWyatt · Dec 24, 2009

I have both an M4P and a Mamiya 6. I use the Mamiya all the time, not shot anything through the Leica since 2004 ish.

All of these cameas are great, but I would say why bother selling the Leica for a Contax? The Contax will not help you produce better images, only practice will do that. Also, if you are not using the Leica much then the Contax will be the same, trust me, I've been there and done that via the digital route.

So forget the camera envy pangs and stay with what you have and just keep shooting.

Out of interest though, with the Mamiya 6, do you get vignetting with the 75mm well not stopped down past f8? I have asked this questio in many places but onluy ever had one person reply and they agreed with me that that there was heavy vignetting. Whilst I am used to stopping down it would be nice to know if I just have a crap lens or not...

mrisney · Dec 24, 2009

DaveWyatt said:
I have both an M4P and a Mamiya 6. I use the Mamiya all the time, not shot anything through the Leica since 2004 ish.

Yup that is my predicament as well. I have spent the last 4 years using the D3, for weddings and portraits. But I returned to film this year, and the Mamiya is quite a camera to do so with, it really is something to use - with Portra and the Nikon Coolscan 9000 - I get 120-150mb TIFF files that are something that the studio D3 can't quite produce. My M4-P is a paperweight, but a friend who likes to fondle it, was quite enamored by it, so we started down the road of trade.

DaveWyatt said:
Out of interest though, with the Mamiya 6, do you get vignetting with the 75mm well not stopped down past f8? I have asked this question in many places but only ever had one person reply and they agreed with me that that there was heavy vignetting. Whilst I am used to stopping down it would be nice to know if I just have a crap lens or not...

Don't see it, and here it is @ f/16 - downtown Portland OR, landscape from Pittock Mansion
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrisney/4153262405/sizes/l/

ajuk · Dec 25, 2009

Yeah, this is so like Sophie's choice. :rolleyes:

sandermarijn · Dec 25, 2009

I have a Contax G1 with all the lenses (bar the Hologon). Also used to own a Mamiya 7 with the 80mm. I sold the Mamiya because I found the lens of too high contrast for my b&w. The Contax G lenses are unrivaled in their combination of sharpness and contrast (the ability to keep shadow and highlight detail without appearing hazy or flat). The only lens I have tried that comes close to the G lenses is the 40mm on the Leica Minilux.

Many don't like the AF on the G1 (and to a lesser extent the G2). I also prefer manual, but the price/performance ratio of the G system is so good that I'm willing to live with the AF. And once you know its behaviour, the AF is good enough. The only problems I have now are with the 90mm lens, close-up at f/2.8 or f/4.

For the price of a 1970's Summicron 50mm f/2 you can get a G1 body plus two lenses.

eclarke · Dec 25, 2009

I haven't made a 35mm exposure for years but I like my G2 so much i just can't sell it, the 45mm lens is the sharpest ever made..Evan Clarke

garysamson · Dec 25, 2009

df cardwell said:
If anyone has moved some fine gear around for a G2 setup, I would love to hear what you have to say

If paying cash when it was an expensive camera counts as moving gear around....

I bought the whole set-up, shot thousands of pictures with it, and when it came down to it, it is a great snap shooter and not a real camera. Meaning that when I could accept what it gave me, it was great. When I needed something involving precise focus, or the simple responsiveness of the Leica, it fell short.

The Mamiya and Leica don't do the same job. The day when you want what the Mamiya can't deliver, you'll want the Leica.

I want to second DF Cardwell's comments. I own the Contax G2 system as well as Leica Ms and lenses and these two camera sustems are not interchangeable in use. If you want to be certain you have the shot, I would stay with the Leica M-P

Uncle Bill · Dec 25, 2009

Keep the Leica.

Paul Goutiere · Dec 25, 2009

Keep the Leica.

mrisney · Dec 25, 2009

I kind of dig the Jeurgen Teller/ Terry Richardson flashed out look - I am probably a little late to that party, but autofocus would be handy for quick snapshot type images - and I have never shot Zeiss glass, might be fun to check out those relished lenses - again the Elmariit Aspherical tends to start at $1500.00 and that's for a rather routine 28mm 2.8. - 1 lens equals about the entire value of either my humble Leica kit or the potential G2 kit. That's my problem with contemporary Leica (APO) , too spendy for me for even the basics

nickstreme · Dec 25, 2009

Word. I got a Contax G1 and 28mm biogon for about $400. I can't complain, it's awesome. Not to mention awesome zeiss glass, and all of the lenses for it can be had for under $300 each.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 25, 2009

I've got a G1 (now my backup) and a G2, and every lens except the zoom lens and the Hologon I have them all also. I wouldn't trade that outfit for just about anything. It's been unfailingly reliable and produced some amazing images.

df cardwell · Dec 25, 2009

ignore the Leica fanboys

Don't that just make you feel old, Gary ?

ragnar58 · Dec 25, 2009

I had not used 35mm for many years but had the opportunity to go to Paris a couple of times because of work. My medium format stuff is too bulky to travel to such places. I bought a G2 outfit with the 21, 28, 45, and 90mm lenses. I had a few months to get ready and the whole outfit with a decent shoulder bag cost around $1300. I’ve never owned a Leica but handled a couple, so here’s my verdict on the issue.
G2 Pluses: Great lenses. Auto exposure. Auto load, advance, and rewind. Auto focus (after you practice awhile with it). Zooming finder (magnification is self-adjusting with the 28, 35, 45, 90, and 35-70mm zoom lenses). Good metering system.
G2 Minuses: Poor viewfinder (too small). No depth-of-field makings on lenses. Even with experience, the auto focus can sometimes bite you (by not using the focus lock button).
I guess it comes down to subject and shooting style. On the streets, it works well as a fast candid-photograph tool. Photographing people on the streets is fine. Where is has it’s most problems is with situations when depth-of-field must be controlled. There are depth-of-field tables in the user manual but it’s not as convenient as a scale on the lens. With practice, the Leica can be used like an auto focus if you become good at judging distance and preset the focus using the scales.

If I had more money to spare, I’d go with the Leica shooting style.

RM

erikg · Dec 25, 2009

Leica fanboys indeed.

My experience with the G2 was similar to that of df cardwell's. I shot with one extensively for about 2 1/2 years or so. Great lenses, nice camera for the most part but the AF came to drive me mad. For sure it was able to focus more quickly than I, and I got some pictures as a result, but it also would choose to focus elsewhere too, and to disastrous results (as much as a disaster an out of focus picture can be). I found that when I miss focus with a manual camera I miss by a little, but when the G2 misses, it misses huge. A miss is as good as mile I suppose. But not always. What turned me off finally was the noise, the focus servo buzzing constantly. I finally couldn't stand it.

But if you're not shooting 35mm, why get any camera at this point? Well, it is fun to try things for your self if cash allows.

eddym · Dec 26, 2009

apconan said:
To the original poster: ignore the Leica fanboys. They have a point about manual feel, but the Mamiya 6 is manual enough for many. In a decade or two, you'll still be able to buy another Leica setup, but if you pass up the Contax, you'll have missed out. Plus the lenses can be cheaply bought and adapted to micro 4/3rds, which have a great future...

In a decade or two (or three or four or...), a Leica will still be working.

Vincenzo Maielli · Dec 26, 2009

Leica M-4P with Leicameter MR or Voigtlännder VC Meter II.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

Tom Kershaw · Dec 26, 2009

Vincenzo,

How well do you find the Voigtlander 'VC Meter II' works?

Tom

Sophie's choice: Leica M4-P or Contax G2

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